The Godhead, Correctly Explained

[A Freeman]

Excerpt below from:

In The Beginning Was The Word

Before the beginning of time, before there was language - both of which God created - God exists. Please note well the correct use of the word "exists", which is a present-tense verb because God has no beginning, nor any end.

Psalm 90:2 BEFORE the mountains were brought forth, or ever Thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou [art] God.

God is the self-existing ONE (Exod. 3:14; Deut. 6:4; Zech. 14:9; Mark 12:29), NOT a "trinity". One actually means one; it does NOT mean 3=1 or 1=3 or anything other than one. There is only ONE Almighty God, Who is The Most High (Psalm 57:2; Luke 1:32-35; Sura 2:255), i.e. greater than ALL (John 10:29), including Christ (John 14:28).

Before God created anyone or anything, God exists. Before time began there would have been no need for the Word (communication) in any form, as there was no one else with which to communicate.

In the Beginning

John 1:1-2 KJV
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

The first creation of God was His Firstborn/Eldest Son Michael (Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14), known here on Earth by His TITLE: Christ.

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 GIVING THANKS UNTO THE FATHER, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God, the FIRSTBORN of every CREATURE*:

*Note Well: By Definition -

IMAGE = LIKENESS. The Hebrew name "Micha-El" literally means "Who is LIKE God?". Like Michael, we (the spiritual-Beings/Souls) were made in God's IMAGE/LIKENESS, but we certainly are NOT God the Father, and neither is anyone else, including Christ (Matt. 23:9; Sura 33:40).

INVISIBLE = NOT VISIBLE. No one has ever seen God (John 1:18; John 5:37), but thousands upon thousands saw Jesus, the human son of the virgin Mary, into whom Prince Michael/Christ was incarnated.

FIRSTBORN = THE FIRST CREATED/THE FIRST TO BE BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE.

CREATURE = SOME LIVING THING THAT WAS CREATED.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the community of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness (Prince Michael/Christ - Rev. 1:5), THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD;

The moment that God created Michael, God became known as Father (Matt. 6:9), and Michael became His Son (yes, a true Father-Son relationship - 1 John 2:22). And it was in that moment when both time and language began.

After God created Michael, God showed Michael everything, creating everyone and everything else by and for Michael (Col. 1:16).

Hebrews 1:1-4
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [His] glory, and the express IMAGE of His person, and upholding all things by The Word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of His Majesty on high;
1:4 Being MADE so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 5:19-20
5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do NOTHING of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that Himself doeth: and He will show him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

[onewithhim]

We're talking about the common phrase ego eimi---"I am."

That's right.

This is said many times by people all through the Bible.

No. It's said six times in the New Testament. Seven if you include eimi ego.

If you include the Septuagint, as you seem to be, then it's said a ton of times, but in the overwhelming majority of those cases, it's said by God calling Himself God. That's opposite to the case you'd like it to make.

You still didn't answer my question

I've answered it every time you thought it was important enough to ask.

---are the blind man and Paul claiming to be God (since they both said ego eimi) ?

For the blind man, probably not, but as I pointed out the other two times you asked and I answered, it's still in a theologically charged passage in John's Gospel, so John may actually have intended that connection.

Paul, though, never said ego eimi at all. The author of 1 Timothy did, but that wasn't Paul. The author likely wasn't claiming to be God in that passage, but that may also be why he inverted the word order.

So the blind man nor the writer of Timothy claimed to be God, though they said the same thing that Jesus said---"Ego eimi." So why should we believe that Jesus was claiming to be God?

[Difflugia]

So the blind man nor the writer of Timothy claimed to be God, though they said the same thing that Jesus said---"Ego eimi." So why should we believe that Jesus was claiming to be God?

Since the other five times that John has someone saying ego eimi, it's Jesus saying it and John is building up to a climax where Jesus claims to be God. In that case, why shouldn't we also think that the blind man was claiming to be God, at least in some allegorical sense? You know that John was fond of wordplay and allegory, right? Especially using Greek words that didn't translate cleanly to and from Hebrew?

The author of Timothy was explicitly avoiding the theological connection by inverting the word order.

[Capbook]

John 8:58 has been quoted many times. There has been a thorough discussion on that verse.

Yes, but I believe the thorough discussion from your side were almost based from paraphrase translations.
See below for your ready reference.

Jhn 8:58 said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Araham came to be, I am."e Footnote: eSee also Jhn 1:1, Jhn 6:62, Jhn 17:5, Heb 11:26

THAT is paraphrased, as is John 1:1. The other verses don't say anything about Jesus being "I Am" or I Will, as some translations have it. You are misleading people, and that need not be the case, because we have discussed "I Am" (John 8:58) thoroughly in the past. Jesus was not quoting from Exodus 3:14. He spoke good proper Greek, not the mangled mess that many translators have made. Jesus simply said: "Before Abraham came to be, I existed."

You may have thoroughly discussed the "I am" in John 8:58 but you may not have it compared to the word in Greek of "I am" in the Old Testament of Ex 3:14. The word "I am" have the same Strong No. G1510, in Greek "eimi." in the OT and NT Greek Septuagint.
This proves that Jesus was quoting the same Greek word "eimi" as "I am" in Ex 3:14.
And also proves Jesus divine nature as God.

Oh no. "I am" is the most common phrase in the Scriptures, used by many many people. There is no indication that Jesus was quoting Exodus 3:14. In just a verse or two after John 8:58, the man who was blind and then could see after Jesus healed him, responded to the people after they asked him if he was that man, and he said "I am." Is the blind man also quoting Exodus? Is he also God?

As the healed blind man when asked if he was that man and said "I am" was the Jews picked stones and tried to throw it at him?
Or do the Jews understand what we understand that Jesus was quoting Ex 3:14?
I may ask you, why the Jews tried to throw stones to Jesus? (John 10:31-33)

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.
Jhn 8:59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Jhn 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
Jhn 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

[onewithhim]

Yes, but I believe the thorough discussion from your side were almost based from paraphrase translations.
See below for your ready reference.

Jhn 8:58 said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Araham came to be, I am."e Footnote: eSee also Jhn 1:1, Jhn 6:62, Jhn 17:5, Heb 11:26

THAT is paraphrased, as is John 1:1. The other verses don't say anything about Jesus being "I Am" or I Will, as some translations have it. You are misleading people, and that need not be the case, because we have discussed "I Am" (John 8:58) thoroughly in the past. Jesus was not quoting from Exodus 3:14. He spoke good proper Greek, not the mangled mess that many translators have made. Jesus simply said: "Before Abraham came to be, I existed."

You may have thoroughly discussed the "I am" in John 8:58 but you may not have it compared to the word in Greek of "I am" in the Old Testament of Ex 3:14. The word "I am" have the same Strong No. G1510, in Greek "eimi." in the OT and NT Greek Septuagint.
This proves that Jesus was quoting the same Greek word "eimi" as "I am" in Ex 3:14.
And also proves Jesus divine nature as God.

Oh no. "I am" is the most common phrase in the Scriptures, used by many many people. There is no indication that Jesus was quoting Exodus 3:14. In just a verse or two after John 8:58, the man who was blind and then could see after Jesus healed him, responded to the people after they asked him if he was that man, and he said "I am." Is the blind man also quoting Exodus? Is he also God?

As the healed blind man when asked if he was that man and said "I am" was the Jews picked stones and tried to throw it at him?
Or do the Jews understand what we understand that Jesus was quoting Ex 3:14?
I may ask you, why the Jews tried to throw stones to Jesus? (John 10:31-33)

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.
Jhn 8:59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Jhn 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
Jhn 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
Jhn 10:32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"
Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

He was claiming to be the SON of God, and they considered this to be blasphemy, even as much as if he said he was God. And they didn't want anyone saying that he had been around since before Abraham, whom they identified closely with---their esteemed patriarch. They were looking for ANY way to get rid of him, and they tried very hard, even to the point of accusing him of blasphemy and stoning him.

[tygger2]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #44]

Capbook wrote:
You may have thoroughly discussed the "I am" in John 8:58 but you may not have it compared to the word in Greek of "I am" in the Old Testament of Ex 3:14. The word "I am" have the same Strong No. G1510, in Greek "eimi." in the OT and NT Greek Septuagint.
This proves that Jesus was quoting the same Greek word "eimi" as "I am" in Ex 3:14.
And also proves Jesus divine nature as God.
..............................................................................
Eimi in the NT is "I am" and often translated "I am he." But it is not used as a part of God's name in Exodus 3:14 in the Septuagint! It says there "...Thus shall ye say to the sons of Israel, THE BEING [Ho On] has sent me to you." Yes it's in all caps in the Septuagint, "THE BEING," not "I am."

There is no NT Septuagint.

As for the Hebrew text at Ex. 3:14, it's ehyeh.

All the other places where ehyeh is used in the the books of Moses are listed below. You will find they always mean "I will be" not "I am," particularly when it is Jehovah speaking about his relationship to his people (as also in Ex. 3:14)

See ehyeh in an OT Interlinear at Exodus 3:14:
Now look up the other scriptures which use ehyeh and see how they are translated:

Genesis 26:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)
Genesis 31:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)

Exodus 3:12 (Jehovah: I will be with you" NRSV)
Exodus 4:12 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)
Exodus 4:15 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)

Deuteronomy 32:23 (Moses: "I will be with you" NRSV)

[Difflugia]

Eimi in the NT is "I am" and often translated "I am he." But it is not used as a part of God's name in Exodus 3:14 in the Septuagint! It says there "...Thus shall ye say to the sons of Israel, THE BEING [Ho On] has sent me to you." Yes it's in all caps in the Septuagint, "THE BEING," not "I am."

The part that's being quoted is before your ellipsis. If it weren't, we wouldn't have to suffer the nonsense about the Hebrew ehyeh affecting what John's Jesus meant by the Greek ego eimi.

All the other places where ehyeh is used in the the books of Moses are listed below.

Since John's Jesus is quoting , then it would be more appropriate to look at verses where appears. In the spirit of the NWT, I'm going to replace with "Jehovah."

• 3:6- the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob
• 3:14- The One
• 4:10 (Moses says)-slow of tongue
• 7:5-and all of the Egyptians will know that Jehovah
• 8:22 (v. 18 LXX)-so that they will know that Jehovah, the Lord of all the Earth
• 14:4-and all of the Egyptians will know that Jehovah
• 14:18-and all of the Egyptians will know that Jehovah
• 20:2 (note that this is the First Commandment!)- Jehovah your God who brought you out of Egypt
• 29:46-and they will know that Jehovah their God

That's all of the appearances in Exodus. The pattern is similar to what we see in John, in fact. There are eight total and only 4:10 isn't Jehovah self-identifying. I suppose one could argue that Jesus picked Exodus 4:10 and is quoting Moses, but that just seems like whistling past a Trinitarian graveyard.

[Capbook]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #44]

Capbook wrote:
You may have thoroughly discussed the "I am" in John 8:58 but you may not have it compared to the word in Greek of "I am" in the Old Testament of Ex 3:14. The word "I am" have the same Strong No. G1510, in Greek "eimi." in the OT and NT Greek Septuagint.
This proves that Jesus was quoting the same Greek word "eimi" as "I am" in Ex 3:14.
And also proves Jesus divine nature as God.
..............................................................................
Eimi in the NT is "I am" and often translated "I am he." But it is not used as a part of God's name in Exodus 3:14 in the Septuagint! It says there "...Thus shall ye say to the sons of Israel, THE BEING [Ho On] has sent me to you." Yes it's in all caps in the Septuagint, "THE BEING," not "I am."

There is no NT Septuagint.

As for the Hebrew text at Ex. 3:14, it's ehyeh.

All the other places where ehyeh is used in the the books of Moses are listed below. You will find they always mean "I will be" not "I am," particularly when it is Jehovah speaking about his relationship to his people (as also in Ex. 3:14)

See ehyeh in an OT Interlinear at Exodus 3:14:
Now look up the other scriptures which use ehyeh and see how they are translated:

Genesis 26:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)
Genesis 31:3 (Jehovah: "I will be with you" NRSV)

Exodus 3:12 (Jehovah: I will be with you" NRSV)
Exodus 4:12 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)
Exodus 4:15 (Jehovah: "I will be with your mouth" NRSV)

Deuteronomy 32:23 (Moses: "I will be with you" NRSV)

Yes, the "being" in Septuagint Ex 3:14 still has the same Greek word " eimi" and Strong no.G1510 of the "I am" in John 8:58.
With same Greek word Jesus used in John 8:58 as reference to the "I am" in Ex 3:14.

G1510 (Thayer)
eimi
Thayer Definition:
1) to be, to exist, to happen, to be present

Exo 3:14 AndG2532 God saidG2036 G3588 G2316 toG4314 Moses,G* IG1473 amG1510.2.1 the oneG3588 being.G1510.6 AndG2532 he said,G2036 ThusG3779 you shall sayG2046 to theG3588 sonsG5207 of Israel,G* The oneG3588 beingG1510.6 has sentG649 meG1473 toG4314 you.G1473

Exo 3:14 G2532 CONJ V-AAI-3S G3588 T-NSM G2316 N-NSM G4314 PREP ....N-ASM G1473 P-NS G1510 V-PAI-1S G3588 T-NSM G1510 V-PAPNS G2532 CONJ V-AAI-3S ...G3778 ADV V-FAI-2S G3588 T-DPM ...G5207 N-DPM .G2474 N-PRI G3588 T-NSM G1510 V-PAPNS G649 V-RAI-3S G1473 P-AS G4314 PREP ...G4771 P-AP

Gen 26:3 "SojournH1481a in thisH2088 landH776 and R1I will be with you and R2blessH1288 you, for R3to you and to your N1descendantsH2233 I will giveH5414 allH3605 theseH411 landsH776, and I will establishH6965 R4the oathH7621 whichH834 I sworeH7650 to your fatherH1 AbrahamH85.

Here Ex 3:14, the " I am," in Hebrew """ hyh" with Strong No. H1961. Compare its Strong Numbers with your quoted verses if it did render the bear the Strong Number and Bible lexicon definition. You will see it bears different Strong no. with the "I am" in Ex 3:14 and sure not the same Bible lexicon definition.

H1961 (Brown-Driver-Briggs)
"" hyh
BDB Definition:
1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
1a) (Qal)
1a1) -----
1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass
1a1b) to come about, come to pass
1a2) to come into being, become
1a2a) to arise, appear, come
1a2b) to become
1a2b1) to become
1a2b2) to become like
1a2b3) to be instituted, be established
1a3) to be
1a3a) to exist, be in existence
1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)
1a3d) to accompany, be with
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone

Exo 3:14 GodH430 saidH559 to MosesH4872, "N1 R1I AMH1961 WHOH834 N1I AMH1961"; and He saidH559, "ThusH3541 you shall sayH559 to the sonsH1121 of IsraelH3478, 'N1I AMH1961 has sentH7971 me to you.'

(NAS95+) Gen 26:3 "SojournH1481a in thisH2088 landH776 and R1I will be with you and R2blessH1288 you, for R3to you and to your N1descendantsH2233 I will giveH5414 allH3605 theseH411 landsH776, and I will establishH6965 R4the oathH7621 whichH834 I sworeH7650 to your fatherH1 AbrahamH85.

(NAS95+) Gen 31:3 Then the LORDH3068 saidH559 to JacobH3290, "R1ReturnH7725 to the landH776 of your fathersH1 and to your relativesH4138, and R2I will be with you."

(NAS95+)Exo 3:12 And He saidH559, "CertainlyH3588 R1I will be with you, and thisH2088 shall be the signH226 to you that it is I who have sentH7971 you: R2when you have broughtH3318 the peopleH5971a out of EgyptH4714, R3you shall N1worshipH5647 GodH430 at thisH2088 mountainH2022."

(NAS95+)Exo 4:12 "NowH6258 then goH1980, and R1I, even I, will be with your mouthH6310, and R2teachH3384 you whatH834 you are to sayH1696."

(NAS95+) Exo 4:15 "You are to speakH1696 to him and R1putH7760 the wordsH1697 in his mouthH6310; and I, even I, will be with your mouthH6310 and his mouthH6310, and I will teachH3384 you whatH834 you are to doH6213a.

[tygger2]

[Replying to Capbook in post #47]

Septuagint
Gen 26:3
" [ I will be] . ... . ... ... ' . ...

Gen. 31:3
... ... ... "

Ex. 3:12
...- ... " [ I will be] .- ... . - ... '... . . .

[Revelations won]

To All respondents,

After examining the OP and responses it is blatantly obvious that you are worshiping a God who is changing and can no longer answer prayers. This is indeed a God who you cannot commune with, one who for thousands of years has reveled himself by personal revelation even who has spoken face to face with his holy prophets and apostles. But you all appear to believe in a mute god who no longer speaks to anyone.

Even when he does speak you openly reject him and that which he would reveal for you all deny latter day prophets and revelation. You all openly reject latter day prophets in spite of the fact that the Bible itself clearly testifies of at least two (2) latter dy prophets who will prophesy for 3 1/2 years with great power and authority in the city of Jerusalem.

In short you have relegated yourselves to the worship of a god whom has never spoken to you, but is a god of your own making who is formulated by your own private deductive reasoning.

You teach of a doctrine wherein without basis of evidence or fact you assert that Adam has a defective gene and that ALL his descendants have the same defective gene and cannot become perfect. This also includes Christ himself. Thus you are really teaching that an imperfect mortal can atone for the sins of anyone else, can provide the resurrection, can inherit all power in heaven and earth, can be the judge of all, and inherit an eternal and everlasting kingdom, who will sit in the very throne of God our eternal father.

Can you show me the scriptures which verify all of the above???

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #47]

Septuagint
Gen 26:3
" [ I will be] . ... . ... ... ' . ...

Gen. 31:3
... ... ... "

Ex. 3:12
...- ... " [ I will be] .- ... . - ... '... . . .

Still they have the same Greek word " eimi" with the same Strong no. G1510 and same definition from Bible Lexicons, but "I will be" is not one of them.

G1510 (Thayer)
eimi
Thayer Definition:
1) to be, to exist, to happen, to be present

Gen 26:3 G2532 CONJ V-PAD-2S G1722 PREP .G3588 T-DSF .G1065 N-DSF ....G3778 D-DSF G2532 CONJ G1510 V-FMI-1S G3326 PREP ...G4771 P-GS G2532 CONJ ....G2127 V-FAI-1S G4771 P-AS G4771 P-DS G1063 PRT G2532 CONJ G3588 T-DSN G4690 N-DSN ...G4771 P-GS G1325 V-FAI-1S G3956 A-ASF .G3588 T-ASF .G1065 N-ASF ....G3778 D-ASF G2532 CONJ .G2476 V-FAI-1S G3588 T-ASM G3727 N-ASM ...G1473 P-GS G3739 R-ASM V-AAI-1S G11 N-PRI G3588 T-DSM G3962 N-DSM ...G4771 P-GS

Gen 31:3 V-AAI-3S G1161 PRT ...G2962 N-NSM G4314 PREP G2384 N-PRI ...G654 V-PMD-2S G1519 PREP .G3588 T-ASF .G1065 N-ASF ...G3588 T-GSM G3962 N-GSM ...G4771 P-GS G2532 CONJ G1519 PREP .G3588 T-ASF G1074 N-ASF ...G4771 P-GS G2532 CONJ G1510 V-FMI-1S G3326 PREP ...G4771 P-GS

Exo 3:12 V-AAI-3S G1161 PRT G3588 T-NSM G2316 N-NSM ...N-DSM G3004 V-PAPNS G3754 CONJ G1510 V-FMI-1S G3326 PREP ...G4771 P-GS G2532 CONJ ...G3778 D-NSN G4771 P-DS G3588 T-NSN .G4592 N-NSN G3754 CONJ G1473 P-NS G4771 P-AS G1821 V-PAI-1S G1722 PREP G3588 T-DSN G1806 V-AAN G4771 P-AS G3588 T-ASM G2992 N-ASM ...G1473 P-GS G1537 PREP ......G125 N-GSF G2532 CONJ ...G3000 V-FAI-2P G3588 T-DSM G2316 N-DSM G1722 PREP G3588 T-DSN G3735 N-DSN ...G3778 D-DSN