Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

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Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

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Post by Wootah »

12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
1) So Saul was a top Jew and would never blaspheme against YHWH.

Historical Background: Saul (later Paul) was a Pharisee of the strictest sect, born a Roman citizen but raised in the Jewish tradition of Tarsus. He studied directly under Gamaliel, the grandson of Hillel and one of the most revered rabbis in the Sanhedrin (Acts 22:3; cf. Acts 5:34-39). Gamaliel's school emphasized meticulous Torah observance, and Saul describes himself as "advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers" (Galatians 1:14, emphasis added).
Zeal Against "Blasphemy": As a Pharisee, Saul's mission was to purge Israel of anything that could defile the covenant or dishonor YHWH. Blasphemy was the ultimate Jewish taboo—punishable by stoning (Leviticus 24:16; cf. the trial of Jesus in Mark 14:64). Saul hunted perceived blasphemers: "I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death... I went to foreign cities to imprison many... I cast my vote against them when they were put to death" (Acts 26:10-11; cf. Acts 8:1-3; 9:1-2). He saw himself as God's enforcer, breathing "threats and murder against the disciples" (Acts 9:1).
Key Implication: A man like Saul would never intentionally blaspheme YHWH. His actions were the opposite: hyper-vigilant defense of God's honor. If he thought he was serving God, he couldn't have been blaspheming—unless his target wasn't just a "false messiah" but God incarnate.

2) Paul's Post-Conversion Confession—"I Was Once a Blasphemer" (1 Timothy 1:13)
The Text in Context: In 1 Timothy 1:12-14, Paul thanks Christ for his mercy, then pivots to his past: "Even though I was once a blasphemer (blasphēmos) and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly..."This isn't casual regret; it's a radical re-evaluation. Paul isn't confessing generic sins—he's using loaded Jewish terminology. Blasphēmia in the Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) and rabbinic thought always targets God directly: cursing His name, attributing evil to Him, or rejecting His revelation (e.g., Numbers 15:30; 2 Kings 19:4).
Cross-reference Acts 9:4-5 (Saul's Damascus Road encounter): Jesus asks, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" Saul's reply—"Who are you, Lord?"—reveals the divine identity. Jesus identifies as the one Saul is attacking.

3) The Twist: As Saul, he believed he was honoring YHWH by crushing the "Nazarene sect" (Acts 24:5). But now, he sees those actions as blasphemy against God. Why? Because the early church's message was that Jesus is YHWH's divine presence (e.g., Jesus' claims in John 8:58; 10:30). Persecuting Christians = persecuting the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27), which Paul now equates with assaulting God Himself.

4)The Paradox Resolved: How could a Gamaliel-trained Pharisee blaspheme without knowing it? Only if his "zeal" was misdirected at the wrong target—God Himself in the person of Jesus. Paul isn't saying he slandered YHWH's name verbally; he's saying his violent opposition to Jesus was, in truth, reviling the divine Son. This mirrors Jesus' warning: "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven" (Matthew 12:32). Paul's ignorance (v. 13) echoes this—his "unbelief" blinded him to Jesus' deity.

How could a devout, elite Pharisee like Saul—trained under Gamaliel, fiercely zealous for the honor of YHWH, and utterly committed to stamping out anything he saw as blasphemy against God—ever describe his own past actions as blasphemy (1 Timothy 1:13)?He wasn't casually sinning or attacking some random group. As Saul, he believed he was defending God's name by persecuting Christians—breathing threats and murder against them (Acts 9:1), approving their executions (Acts 26:10), and hunting them to foreign cities. A man of his background and training would never knowingly blaspheme YHWH; that was the very crime he was trying to eradicate!So how can Paul, looking back, honestly call himself a 'blasphemer' unless the one he was actually opposing—Jesus—was God Himself?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

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Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to 1213 in post #10]

All it says is, @1213, that Jesus is fully God, as are the Father and the Holy Spirit, who are all the one God. He, therefore, is a mystery that our limited human minds cannot fully comprehend. Read the whole Gospel of John and see the three Persons that the rest of the Bible says are one God.

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

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Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to 1213 in post #10]

Rather than using human reasoning, I prefer to take the Scriptures as they are and to accept the mysteries of things that it doesn't fully reveal, @1213. Paul says in that passage that Jesus is both God and man, because is the firstborn with his virgin birth and also has the essence of deity. The truth that the three Persons are one God is a mysterious truth, but the inspired Bible says so; so, I believe it.

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

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Post by 1213 »

BruceLeiter wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 10:12 am [Replying to 1213 in post #10]

All it says is, @1213, that Jesus is fully God, as are the Father and the Holy Spirit, who are all the one God. He, therefore, is a mystery that our limited human minds cannot fully comprehend. Read the whole Gospel of John and see the three Persons that the rest of the Bible says are one God.
If you are still speaking about Col. 1:19-20, it actually says:

Col 1:19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Not "Jesus is fully God, as are the Father and the Holy Spirit, who are all the one God".

I recommend to take the Scriptures as they are.
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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

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Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to 1213 in post #13]

I do too, @1231, and I compare this passage with the following to arrive at the conclusion that the one God is also three Persons:

Deu 6:4  “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. 
Deu 6:5  You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

Jhn_5:17  But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”
Jhn_5:18  This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
Jhn_5:19  So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
Jhn_5:20  For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel.
Jhn_5:21  For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
Jhn_5:22  For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,
Jhn_5:23  that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
Jhn_5:26  For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.

Jhn_10:15  just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Jhn_10:17  For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
Jhn_10:18  No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”
Jhn_10:25  Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
Jhn_10:29  My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Jhn_10:30  I and the Father are one.”

Jhn_14:21  Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”
Jhn_14:23  Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Jhn_14:24  Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
Jhn_14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Jhn_14:28  You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Jhn_14:31  but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go from here.

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

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Post by 1213 »

BruceLeiter wrote: Sun Apr 19, 2026 9:10 pm [Replying to 1213 in post #13]

I do too, @1231, and I compare this passage with the following to arrive at the conclusion that the one God is also three Persons:....
Sorry, I don't think they show God has three persons.
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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

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Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to 1213 in post #15]

You can believe what you want to believe, @1213. Why don't they show that God IS three Persons?

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #17

Post by tam »

Peace to you BruceLeiter,

You asked 1213:
Why don't they show that God IS three Persons?
I hope you don't mind if I respond, just to discuss?
BruceLeiter wrote: Sun Apr 19, 2026 9:10 pm [Replying to 1213 in post #13]

I do too, @1231, and I compare this passage with the following to arrive at the conclusion that the one God is also three Persons:

Deu 6:4  “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. 
Deu 6:5  You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 
So reading this - I do not understand how anyone would come to three. These verses are very specifically emphasizing that God (YHWH) is one God.

Not one God in three. Not three in one.

Just one.

Here, O Israel: [YHWH] our God, [YHWH] is one.
You shall love [YHWH] your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.


God - whose name is JAHVEH - is ONE.

Thousands of years later, it is as if these verses were never written. As if this emphasis - this very direct statement - was never made.
John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 
The verse as translated is contested. I don't want to go into all the different ways that it has been suggested this verse be rendered. I am assuming that you have heard them (or have at least heard of them.) Here is just one source on how the word 'theos' can be rendered. https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon ... jv/tr/0-1/

Regardless, the very next line emphasizes that He (the Word) was WITH God in the beginning.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

I can see why some believe this verse (translated a certain way) might support - well, not the trinity - but the idea that Christ is God... except that Christ never once teaches this. He states over and over again that He is the Son of God. Not God, Himself.

And He (the Son) is the One to whom the Father told us to listen:

"This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him."


Jhn_5:17  But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”
What about this verse says 'trinity'?
Christ states simply that He and His Father are working.
Jhn_5:18  This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
Please note:

a) this verse does not state that Christ is claiming to be God, Himself. This verse states clearly that Christ is calling God His Father.

b) Christ did not make Himself equal with God. He clearly stated that the Father is greater than He is.

Even in Revelation, after his ascension, He continues to call God both His Father and His God.

The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.
Jhn_5:19  So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
Jhn_5:20  For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing. And greater works than these will he show him, so that you may marvel.
Jhn_5:21  For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
Jhn_5:22  For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,
Jhn_5:23  that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
Jhn_5:26  For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Again, what in here suggests trinity?

There is a Father and a Son in these verses. Everything the Son has (and does) He received (or learned) from the Father.
Jhn_10:15  just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Jhn_10:17  For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
Jhn_10:18  No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”
Jhn_10:25  Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
Jhn_10:29  My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Jhn_10:30  I and the Father are one.”
Where do you get trinity here?

There is a Father - and this Father is the God of Israel. Speaking to the Jews, Christ says:

"My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me."

His Father is the One whom the Jews claim as their God. The Jews claim [YHWH] as their God. [YHWH] is the FATHER of Christ; [YHWH] is not Christ Himself.

As for,

"I and the Father are one."

If you think this means that they are the same "God", then how do you reconcile that with the following words, where Christ is praying that we be one just as they are one?

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity.


Jhn_14:21  Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”
Jhn_14:23  Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Jhn_14:24  Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
Jhn_14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Jhn_14:28  You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Jhn_14:31  but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go from here.

Again, I do not see what states 'trinity' here. Christ does as the Father has commanded Him. He loves His Father. He speaks the words that His Father gave Him. The Father will love those who love His Son. They (the Father and the Son) will come and make their home with that person (who loves the Son.)


Peace again to you!
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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #18

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to tam in post #17]

@tam, theology compares all the parts of the full revelation of God in the Bible. All of the verses together add up to a three-in-one God. Why?

The Old Testament hints several times at a plurality in God, while at the same time, maintaining rightly that he is one God in contrast with the multitude of gods of the nations around Israel.

The New Testament, especially the Gospel of John, provides what is called "progressive revelation," which adds further understanding to the Old Testament's meaning. Thus, all of the verses I cited point to three Persons, the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. He is a mystery because he doesn't explain how three can be in one God.

However, even though our tiny, human minds cannot grasp that truth, the Bible teaches it. Therefore, we need to humble ourselves and admit that though we cannot understand God completely, he is Triune, 3-in-1.

That mysterious truth can and should give us hearts of praise for the great God in whom we believe. He is God; we are not God.

Isa 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. 
Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. 
Isa 55:10  “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, 
Isa 55:11  so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. 

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #19

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
BruceLeiter wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2026 1:53 pm [Replying to tam in post #17]

@tam, theology compares all the parts of the full revelation of God in the Bible.
In other words, are you saying 'take the bible as a whole'?

Because that is a meaningless statement. That's not a shot at you. It is just that so many people say that - and they say it when it is something that Christ did not teach. A JW will see their two hope doctrine as clearly as you see the trinity. A person who believes in the trinity will see that doctrine as clearly as someone else will see that "Jesus" is the archangel Michael.

But please can you tell me where God says to 'take the bible as a whole' or even 'listen to the bible'?

Or did He instead state outright: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him."


All of the verses together add up to a three-in-one God. Why?

The Old Testament hints several times at a plurality in God, while at the same time, maintaining rightly that he is one God in contrast with the multitude of gods of the nations around Israel.
This statement contradicts itself.

Plural = more than one.

The words 'Our God is one God' is a very clear statement. One God. It does not hint toward a plural or tri-une God. Trinity is not one. Trinity is three.

The New Testament, especially the Gospel of John, provides what is called "progressive revelation," which adds further understanding to the Old Testament's meaning. Thus, all of the verses I cited point to three Persons, the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. He is a mystery because he doesn't explain how three can be in one God.

However, even though our tiny, human minds cannot grasp that truth, the Bible teaches it.
Have you considered that the reason our tiny, human minds cannot grasp this concept is because it actually doesn't make sense?

Therefore, we need to humble ourselves and admit that though we cannot understand God completely, he is Triune, 3-in-1.
We do not need to admit such a thing. Christ did not teach it.

He did, however, teach that we can know His Father:

"If you know me, you know my Father also."

That mysterious truth can and should give us hearts of praise for the great God in whom we believe. He is God; we are not God.
How do you know this 'mystery' is true if you cannot understand it?

(I don't need to believe in a trinity to praise God, to love Him and his Son. To know that I am not God.)

Isa 55:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. 
Isa 55:9  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. 
Isa 55:10  “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, 
Isa 55:11  so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. 
God's ways our higher than man's ways, yes, absolutely. Man has done abominable things and claimed them to be what God wants or that these are being done in the name of God.

But there is nothing in those verses from Isaiah that suggest God is plural. Or that we cannot know God.

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Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #20

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to tam in post #19]

Apparently, @tam, you think that your reasoning can figure everything out. It's completely your right to think that, but I know at my age of 83, that I can't. I agree with the rule, "Go as far as the Bible goes; then, stop!" Adam and Eve thought that they knew better how to live and reason than God did, and humanity has followed their pride ever since then. Take all of my passages, and you will get the mysterious truth that God is one God who reveals himself as three Persons, who all work together in perfect harmony as the Source of blessings given to us without our deserving them at all, another mystery of God's astounding grace.

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