Let's consider the claimed 'ascension' tale

[Zzyzx]

There are serious reasons to doubt the authenticity of the story of Jesus rising up into the sky.

First: Many 'gods' are said to have 'ascended' or flown away into the sky. That is a common theme in ancient mythology, folklore, and religions. The bible tale is NOT original or unique -- but is just one of many similar tales.

Second: The Christian 'ascension' is described by only ONE gospel writer -- whose true identity is unknown to theologians and scholars. The writer of "Luke", whoever he was, admitted in his introduction that he was reporting what he heard from others. Thus, the ONE description of the 'resurrection' was written half a century later by someone who was not present to witness the 'event' but had heard about it from others.

Third: Would any rational person believe a recent claim of someone rising up into the sky if told by ONE person who admittedly just heard about it and was not present when it was supposed to occur?

[OneJack]

I don't understand what you mean here.

Never mind, it's just another baseless and unfounded claim anyways....

Getting back to the meat-and-potatoes of this exchange... I had asked: "Why do you trust what the Bible says about who has or hasn't ascended into the sky?"

For which you responded: "Why would I trust the Bible when its account of who has ascended into the sky is incomplete? The Lord taught us that He made the people see the Son of God lifted until he was hidden in the clouds; He took the body of the Son of God and placed him inside the ark of the covenant, hidden somewhere in the Middle East, beside the body of Moses. This is why I believe the story of the Son of God when he was lifted and taken by the clouds is true."

To clarify here, when you state "the Lord taught us", do you mean what we read from the Bible, or other?

I am not referring to what we read in the bible, but rather, to what we've heard and learned from the real and eternally living Christ Jesus, who is beside us all the time, though we do not see Him yet.

And your statement also pre-assumes that a "Lord" actually exists.

I'm sure the Lord Jesus Christ is alive and real; hence, He came into our lives and shepherded us for approximately 14 years.

If I was under the impression that such a Lord exists, then I would not concern myself with whether or not a Jesus actually ascended into the sky, as his ascension is what is to prove that a Lord actually exists.

Jesus is omnipresent, and He is everywhere; the one who ascended into the sky was the Son of God, per se, the man who was the physical vessel of the Lord in His incarnation.

[POI]

I am not referring to what we read in the bible, but rather, to what we've heard and learned from the real and eternally living Christ Jesus, who is beside us all the time, though we do not see Him yet.

I trust you understand that such a blank assertion is not, at all, convincing. Do you understand how debate works? Please re-read what you stated above and then allow me to throw a blank assertion right back at you. Please tell me how we would get anywhere in a debate if I was to issue the following (i.e):

"I am not referring to what we read in the Rig Veda, but rather, to what we've heard and learned from the real and eternally living Agni, who is beside us all the time, though we do not see Him yet."

*******************************

Now that we have this clarified, I ask again (augmented)...

When you assert "the Lord taught us",

How EXACTLY do you know:

1) there is actually a Lord at all?
2) what this Lord does and does not teach us?

I'm sure the Lord Jesus Christ is alive and real; hence..............."etc etc etc"

Oh, now I believe you, because you say "you're sure". I have to ask... Are you an internet troll? These responses are truly wild.

[OneJack]

I am not referring to what we read in the bible, but rather, to what we've heard and learned from the real and eternally living Christ Jesus, who is beside us all the time, though we do not see Him yet.

I trust you understand that such a blank assertion is not, at all, convincing.

I'm not here to convince you/them of the existence of the Lord, but to inform everyone about Him so that salvation may come to those who will listen and come to Him without reservation. Mine is not an assertion but a true-to-life, direct, and personal experience with the Lord.

Do you understand how debate works?

Both should have personal knowledge of the subject they are debating; if only one is knowledgeable of the reality of the subject for debate, one will be totally unaware of the facts the other is laying on the table.

Please re-read what you stated above and then allow me to throw a blank assertion right back at you.

Go on, throw it.

Please tell me how we would get anywhere in a debate if I was to issue the following (i.e):

"I am not referring to what we read in the Rig Veda, but rather, to what we've heard and learned from the real and eternally living Agni, who is beside us all the time, though we do not see Him yet."

So, what did Rig Veda tell you about Himself? How does He respond to you whenever you speak/communicate with Him using your mind, without moving your lips? Where is Rig Veda right now?

*******************************

Now that we have this clarified, I ask again (augmented)...

When you assert "the Lord taught us",

How EXACTLY do you know:

1) there is actually a Lord at all?

I told you already, the Lord came into our lives from 2001 to 2014, and He shepherded and guided us to our salvation and eternal life. He allowed us to write some of His utterances that He uttered [to us] during those times. He sent angels first to my nephew when he was born; those angels were in the forms of ights but with audible voice; hence the child was able to speak with them as he grew up. The angels were always with him for 14 years; his eyes were opened in the spirit realm during those years. When he was 7 years old , the angels appeared to Him in the form of humans, and they brought him a message from heaven, which reads, to wit:

March 26, 1987, a child named Maco or Makie was born. As he grew up, his spiritual eyes were open, and he could see good and evil.

When he turned 7 years old, seven angels appeared to him and announced that on a predetermined day, Lord Jesus Christ would descend and manifest to him, to OneJack's family, to a woman named Marita, and to a man who would suddenly appear to work on the house being built by OneJack, which belonged to Onejack’s wife's nephew. A ministry would be established, initially consisting of one family, but because she trusted a person's advice, they would vanish like a popped bubble. Another family would replace them, who could be led, and the man would emerge.

However, before this happens, he will experience an unusual illness because the sickness comes from demons, and only Lord Jesus Christ can heal him, and it will happen. The first attack of his illness occurred on April 5, 2001. It recurred in May and continued, preventing him from studying. Everyone thought he was bewitched, so they took him to a witch doctor on June 25, 2001. The demons played tricks, and a person was harmed. Everyone thought he was cured, but on July 1, 2001, the illness worsened, and everyone gave up, surrendering to Lord Jesus Christ, who alone could heal the inexplicable and incomprehensible sickness. Everyone was at peace that night.

On July 4, 2001, the story of the sickness was revealed, coming from Lord Jesus Christ, the Almighty, who healed the sickness. On July 22, Beginning A New Life With Jesus Ministry was established in Antipolo City at 5:00 pm. And with this event, everything began. On August 1, 2001, a family vanished because the parents trusted a person.

This event marked the beginning of persecution. They became antagonists to the established ministry. And it ended when Lord Jesus Christ declared, "I AM YOUR LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. REJOICE AND BE GLAD, FOR YOU HAVE TRULY KNOWN ME. GO AND SPREAD MY WORD."

2) what this Lord does and does not teach us?

The Lord used a vessel to teach us the things about Him, salvation, and eternal life, the things that I'm telling you and others in this forum.

I'm sure the Lord Jesus Christ is alive and real; hence..............."etc etc etc"

Oh, now I believe you, because you say "you're sure". I have to ask... Are you an internet troll? These responses are truly wild.

I told you that every time we speak/communicate with Him, He instantly responds to us through tangible means that we can't deny He is alive and real, though we do not see Him.

[POI]

[Replying to OneJack in post #33]

I can't do this anymore with you. I'm now adding you to my 'do not address/respond list', alongside 1213.

Thanks for your time and please do not contact me any longer, publicly or privately.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #33]

I can't do this anymore with you. I'm now adding you to my 'do not address/respond list', alongside 1213.

Thanks for your time and please do not contact me any longer, publicly or privately.

As you wish, POI! Have a good day!