Misconceptions about Christianity

[Burninglight]

1. Christianity is based on blind faith. Christianity is not based on blind faith, but rather faith based on evidence. Blind faith is superstition. Christianity is overwhelmingly supported by reason, evidence, and scientific inquiry. http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-tr ... christians.

2. We get to heaven based on how good we are here on earth. This is not true we are saved by grace through faith it is not of ourselves; it is the gift of God.

3. Once we become a Christian, being saved by God’s gift of grace, it does not matter what we do
This is not true. God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows, so shall he reap.

4. There are many ways to heaven, many paths to God. Because man is separated from God by his sin, the penalty for our sin had to be paid somehow for justice to be done. Jesus Christ paid the penalty for our sins. Thus Christ is thus the only name under heaven by which man may be saved (Acts 4:12). http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-tr ... s-the-same.

5. It doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you are sincere. This is a nice idea, but does not hold up to logic. Christianity is so radically different from other belief systems that if Christianity is true, the others are false. One can be sincere and be sincerely wrong. Sincere belief in a cult, in a false religion, in atheism, or in the tooth fairy do not get one to heaven.
http://www.faithfacts.org/world-religio ... ristianity.

6. The New Testament was written long after the events took place and are thus subject to legends being inserted into the text. The New Testament was written entirely by eye witnesses to the life of Christ or by interviewers of eyewitnesses. Many of the books were written within 25 or so years of Christ’s death, and many scholars—both liberal and conservative—are moving toward the view that all of the books of the New Testament were written prior to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 AD. The one book for which some doubt remains is Revelation. But recent scholarship holds that even this book was written prior to 70 AD. This is the view that liberal scholar John A. T. Robinson presents in his book Redating the New Testament. This is also the view that conservative scholar Kenneth Gentry presents in his book Before Jerusalem Fell. So there was not enough time for the stories to have been developed into legend. Further, as professor of Medieval and Renaissance English, C. S. Lewis said, “Another point is that on that view you would have to regard the accounts of the Man [Jesus] as being legends. Now, as a literary historian, I am perfectly convinced that whatever else the Gospels are they are not legends. I have read a great deal of legend and I am quite clear that they are not the same sort of thing.� (quote from Lewis’ “God in the Dock.�)

7. The Bible has been changed or is otherwise not true to the original manuscripts. The original manuscripts—that is, the actual pieces of parchment or papyrus upon which St. Paul and others wrote the Bible—are no longer extant. But, especially as regards to the New Testament there has been an unbroken chain of manuscripts from the originals. There are thousands of ancient manuscripts extant, including ones from the first and second centuries. Scholars have been able to correlate the manuscripts to know that the Bible we have today is faithful to the originals. See http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-truth/maps. A good book on this issue is The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable? by F. F. Bruce. Regarding the Old Testament, the Dead Sea Scrolls, first discovered in 1947 were from the time of Christ and even to the 2nd century BC. These manuscripts predate the previously oldest known manuscripts by a thousand years. Comparisons of these texts with the others already in existence showed that they were essentially identical. This information confirms how carefully the texts were copied over the centuries and has given scholars tremendous confidence in the accuracy of the Old Testament we have today.

[Suluby]

Rev. 5: 1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?� 3And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it, 4and I began to weep loudly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. 5And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.�

Even Muslims believe that Jesus was born of a virgin. That is not virgin as in young woman. It is a miracle birth that is impossible without God's intervention. Jesus certainly qualifies as the the Lion of the tribe of Judah. Christianity and Islam make up most of the world's population and they know it. The Jews reject their King and Lord. He has become the chief corner stone. Isaiah 53 makes it clear who Jesus is. The disciples of Jesus who were also Jews knew who He was. Why would they risk their lives to preach a tale? Look at the Miracles Jesus did. He healed the lame forgave sin, raised the dead, turned water to wine and rose from the dead. If you cannot believe when you have all this hin sight, you will not believe even if Moses came back from the dead and told you listen to Jesus. Yeshua is King of the Jews.
He is my King. Do you know Him?

LOL So says Christian scripture. And you will, apparently, allow no one to hold a different opinion.

So tell me, when was Jesus anointed as the king? Who did the anointing? How was it done?

Jesus worked miracles, you say, and this is proof that he is who you say he is. But the Tanakh says different .....

"If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul" (Deuteronomy 13:1-3).

Jesus leads Jews away from the Torah. Therefore, Jesus is a false prophet who works miracles to take Jews out of our covenantal relationship with G-d.

And once again ..... quoting the NT to Jews won't help bolster your position.

And trying to convince me that everything I believe is wrong by telling me that even Muslims believe Jesus was born of a virgin .....after watching you try to make garbage out of Muslims beliefs, is ..... well, a joke! .

A joke? Well, if it is a joke, they say many a true word is spoken in jest. BTW, calling Jesus a false prophet flies in the face of Islam not just Christianity. It is also throwing insult upon injury to God and God's beloved son. Satan attacks Jesus more than any other prophet that ever lived. Even in the secular realm. If one wants to share about Islam no problem.

Any religion can be taught but not Jesus Christ the son of the living God. The Jews will one day look on whom they have pierced. Jesus is coming back. There are many Jews that recognized that Jesus is the Messiah. Those that reject Him will get an anti Christ deception. They will think he is the messiah. He will be able to do lying signs and wonders. Daniel speaks about the abomination of desolation. The anti Christ will claim to be the Messiah and resume the daily sacrifices until he sets up the abomination of desolation; that is when the Jews will Know that Jesus is Lord of Lords

Jesus said, He didn't come to destroy the law and the prophets but to fulfill and that He did. He is our Savior, He is our rest, He is our hope of glory. He is the Rose of Sharon; Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting father, Prince of Peace, LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH, the Beginning and the End. The I AM.

The Jews once said let His blood be on us and our children. They took the blame for an innocent man's death. But not just any innocent man. The word of God in human form

Oy!


Why, with some people, does it ALWAYS get down to the point of them pointing a finger(cyber or real life) at a Jew who stands firm as a Jew and calling us Christ killers!

Really now ..... you've (the generic you) had the Crusades, you've had the Inquisitions, you've created the ghetto, you've organized pogroms, you've expelled us entirely from countries, you've kept us out of colleges and hotels and neighborhoods.

When will your blood lust be satisfied? When is enough punishment enough?

When will you realize that everything that happened to your god is just what HE wanted to happen???

Where would your precious salvation be if Jesus had lived to a ripe old age, and with Mary Magdalene raised a houseful of kids??

As some wag once said, "You should thank us!!"

.

I am thankful for the Jews, and I have nothing against them. If push came to shoved, I would have been one of them that risked his life to save one Jewish person during their great persecution.

That is "persecutions" as in plural. It's easy to say that, looking back from the comfort and safety of the 21st century ..... but it was tough to do, which is why so few people actually did it.

The Crusades is one of the misconceptions of Christianity. They were Catholics. I was born and raise Catholic. I am a product of my past, but I am not its prisoner. The Crusades had nothing to do with true Biblical Christianity. It is a historical fact that the Jews hated Jesus' message and wanted Him dead. They didn't actually do it, but the Romans did what they asked for. Do you deny this?

Yes. I do.

And I am telling you that saying - in effect - "the people who did those bad things weren't really Christian" just sounds like so much bovine fecal material. If it was not for the RCC, your version of Christianity would not exist. Your denial of them is a sop ..... an effort to distance yourself from the difficult truths of history.

"Misconceptions of Christianity"???? What do you mean?? That it didn't happen? That Jews and Muslims weren't slaughtered? That the streets of Jerusalem did not run red with the blood of all the humans slaughtered in the name of Jesus ..... to clear the 'holy' land of the infidels?? Do you think it mattered to any of the dead all over Europe and Israel that their killers weren't "really" Christians, according to you? They were still dead!


Jews did not hate Jesus or his message. Most of them of that day had no idea who he was or what he said. He was just another itinerant preacher with a posse of homies ..... one of many, to whom most of the population paid no attention at all.

If you think the Roman Empire ruled the world by cravenly doing whatever their captives wanted them to do, you are fooling yourself. They were large and in charge ..... they did what they wanted to do and the captives went along with them or died. They didn't take orders, they gave them.


.

[Suluby]

Okay this is true , but it was the religious leaders of Jesus' time that hated his message and felt threatened by it. They were jealous.

Nah. The "religious leaders" of the time feared the PEOPLE. They were incredibly corrupt and were collaborating with the Roman conquerors for personal power and gain, and everybody knew it. Same goes for the Herods; remember John the Baptist?

Jesus was probably executed for stirring up trouble for ALL of them, the Romans, the phony Kings, and the Temple cult, who were all in bed together on the backs of the common people. In a few years, the hereditary Temple priesthood and the Judaism that was dominated by it would be extinct, and the Pharaisaic Judaism of Jesus's day, with which he was largely sympathetic if not an actual part, would be all that was left. Torah study, focused on ethics, justice, and liberty, and prayer, all centered in the local community. Temple, bye-bye. Don't need it any more. Don't need a Savior, either.

I don't believe that Jews for the most part think about Jesus like they see Budda. Budda is not threat to Jews Christians or Muslims. But Jesus is a rock of offense to all who reject His lordship.

"Rock of offense"? The only offense I see is people presuming to tell Jews how they think and feel, and implicitly telling us how to read a book that was produced by OUR people and OUR beliefs, and not yours nor anyone else's. You don't get to dictate the proper beliefs of Jews, much less their thoughts; and your opinions matter about as much as the Buddha's.

Whatshisname isn't a "threat" to the Jews. We've done just fine without so much as mentioning him for two thousand years, thanks.

Sorry, this isn't worth my time. Believe what you like; it has absolutely nothing to do with me or my people, and I have no interest in it.

Jesus was sent to the Jews by God. He came unto His own, but His own received Him not, but as many as received Him to them gave he the power to become the sons of God. I am a child of God, and I have every right, for I am a grafted in olive branch.

Grafted in? I have always loved that analogy. You were supposedly 'grafted in', and ever since, you have been trying to choke off, to destroy the original ..... to change it in essential ways so that it is no longer anything like it was, but now is indistinguishable from you. It is intolerable to you (the generic you) that the original continues to survive ..... to thrive and to produce fruit of its own kind and to pay you no attention, no obeisance. You are an irrelevancy to us ..... and you hate that!

I believe Paul who said, "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly by inwardly. God has adopted me. The mantel has been passed on to the gentiles who received the King and Lord the Jews rejected. When the Jews rejected Jesus, they opened to door for us to get in with God, the true God of Abraham who is, BTW, my creator and God too. FYI, you don't have the monopoly of the things of God.

And who was Paul, that he had the authority to speak for all Jews and all of Judaism???

You keep forgetting that Jews didn't so much reject your Jesus as we waited for the messianic events to happen .... and when they did not, we moved on. Jesus simply did not get the job done, so he didn't get the job title.

Their was no mantle to be passed on ..... there is one L-rd ..... and that is G-d, not a human being who walked the earth. There was no great reward for being Jewish ...... but you seem to be so jealous of what you think we get that you have to destroy us to get your share!

If the gospel wasn't an offense, or if you saw Jesus as no more important than Budda, you wouldn't be responding to my posts, it is to your shame. Muslims and Christians would say the same on your view of Jesus, because you see him as not even a true prophet. Jesus will receiver the reward of His suffering.

You just cannot accept the truth ..... that the god you worship is irrelevant to the people who do not worship him as you do.

Jesus is not offensive, and the gospel is not offensive to Jews. We are not offended by Odin and the Havamal; we are not offended by Krishna and the Bhagavad Gita; we are not offended by Jesus and the gospels of Christianity; we are not offended by Ma'at and Anubis and The Book of the Dead.

That are all - repeat ALL - utterly irrelevant to Jews and to Judaism.


I, speaking only for myself, respond to your posts because you post them. The Interwebz entertain me, as I am disabled, and this form of entertainment and learning and meeting people is easy for me ..... I don't even have to get dressed!! Right now, on another board, I'm involved in a discussion of operating systems. I am not offended that one gentleman wants me to give up Firefox and start using Linux ..... I'm fascinated by the details and learning a lot. But I'm not going to change.

I don't believe what I believe to satisfy others. My religious beliefs are both my wings and my roots. They bring me solace when I am grieved, they bring me ease when I am troubled, they bring me strength when I am weak and they bring me far greater joy when I am happy. They bring me a soul-deep peace. They are an unbroken chain that connects me to my ancestors of thousands of years ago who live much as I do ..... and they will connect me to my descendants thousands of years hence who will live much as I do.

What you say ..... what anybody says ..... is irrelevant to me and to my beliefs.

Your little hissy-fit ...... your stomping your foot and saying "But you have to agree with me, because I said so. And Joe and Charlene and Mustafa agree with ME!" won't change a thing.

You are a diversion ..... a bit of entertainment in an otherwise dull day.


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[cnorman18]

Okay this is true , but it was the religious leaders of Jesus' time that hated his message and felt threatened by it. They were jealous.

Nah. The "religious leaders" of the time feared the PEOPLE. They were incredibly corrupt and were collaborating with the Roman conquerors for personal power and gain, and everybody knew it. Same goes for the Herods; remember John the Baptist?

Jesus was probably executed for stirring up trouble for ALL of them, the Romans, the phony Kings, and the Temple cult, who were all in bed together on the backs of the common people. In a few years, the hereditary Temple priesthood and the Judaism that was dominated by it would be extinct, and the Pharaisaic Judaism of Jesus's day, with which he was largely sympathetic if not an actual part, would be all that was left. Torah study, focused on ethics, justice, and liberty, and prayer, all centered in the local community. Temple, bye-bye. Don't need it any more. Don't need a Savior, either.

I don't believe that Jews for the most part think about Jesus like they see Budda. Budda is not threat to Jews Christians or Muslims. But Jesus is a rock of offense to all who reject His lordship.

"Rock of offense"? The only offense I see is people presuming to tell Jews how they think and feel, and implicitly telling us how to read a book that was produced by OUR people and OUR beliefs, and not yours nor anyone else's. You don't get to dictate the proper beliefs of Jews, much less their thoughts; and your opinions matter about as much as the Buddha's.

Whatshisname isn't a "threat" to the Jews. We've done just fine without so much as mentioning him for two thousand years, thanks.

Sorry, this isn't worth my time. Believe what you like; it has absolutely nothing to do with me or my people, and I have no interest in it.

Jesus was sent to the Jews by God. He came unto His own, but His own received Him not, but as many as received Him to them gave he the power to become the sons of God. I am a child of God, and I have every right, for I am a grafted in olive branch.

I believe Paul who said, "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly by inwardly. God has adopted me. The mantel has been passed on to the gentiles who received the King and Lord the Jews rejected. When the Jews rejected Jesus, they opened to door for us to get in with God, the true God of Abraham who is, BTW, my creator and God too. FYI, you don't have the monopoly of the things of God.

And we have never claimed to. All that you say may be true; not my business, not my concern. But whatever New Covenants God has begun with Gentiles, the Old Covenant is still in effect. It was eternal, and God will not break it. If you are claiming that Jews are no longer in God's favor and are doomed in whatever way, you are calling God a liar yourself.

If the gospel wasn't an offense, or if you saw Jesus as no more important than Budda, you wouldn't be responding to my posts...

Once again; nah. You overestimate your importance. I just don't like to see arrogance and crypto-antisemitism go by without comment. You see, it's the "Replacement Theology" that you preach here that lies behind the centuries of persecution, exile and murder to which my people have been subjected by both Christians and Muslims, from the fall of Rome to the present day.

... it is to your shame. Muslims and Christians would say the same on your view of Jesus, because you see him as not even a true prophet. Jesus will receiver the reward of His suffering.

Muslims say that Jews are the descendants of dogs and pigs. We get along with Christians rather better now, but the Holocaust was carried out by Christians, and Christians -- with the exception of the Confessing Church -- stood by and let it happen. Don't preach to me about the failings of my religion. Look to your own.

I'm done. I don't normally interact with proselytizers, particularly those who take the tack that I'm REQUIRED to abandon my own faith and follow theirs on pain of going to Hell, and quote "Scriptures" that aren't in my Bible to do it. Have a nice day.

[Burninglight]

Okay this is true , but it was the religious leaders of Jesus' time that hated his message and felt threatened by it. They were jealous.

Nah. The "religious leaders" of the time feared the PEOPLE. They were incredibly corrupt and were collaborating with the Roman conquerors for personal power and gain, and everybody knew it. Same goes for the Herods; remember John the Baptist?

Jesus was probably executed for stirring up trouble for ALL of them, the Romans, the phony Kings, and the Temple cult, who were all in bed together on the backs of the common people. In a few years, the hereditary Temple priesthood and the Judaism that was dominated by it would be extinct, and the Pharaisaic Judaism of Jesus's day, with which he was largely sympathetic if not an actual part, would be all that was left. Torah study, focused on ethics, justice, and liberty, and prayer, all centered in the local community. Temple, bye-bye. Don't need it any more. Don't need a Savior, either.

I don't believe that Jews for the most part think about Jesus like they see Budda. Budda is not threat to Jews Christians or Muslims. But Jesus is a rock of offense to all who reject His lordship.

"Rock of offense"? The only offense I see is people presuming to tell Jews how they think and feel, and implicitly telling us how to read a book that was produced by OUR people and OUR beliefs, and not yours nor anyone else's. You don't get to dictate the proper beliefs of Jews, much less their thoughts; and your opinions matter about as much as the Buddha's.

Whatshisname isn't a "threat" to the Jews. We've done just fine without so much as mentioning him for two thousand years, thanks.

Sorry, this isn't worth my time. Believe what you like; it has absolutely nothing to do with me or my people, and I have no interest in it.

Jesus was sent to the Jews by God. He came unto His own, but His own received Him not, but as many as received Him to them gave he the power to become the sons of God. I am a child of God, and I have every right, for I am a grafted in olive branch.

I believe Paul who said, "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly by inwardly. God has adopted me. The mantel has been passed on to the gentiles who received the King and Lord the Jews rejected. When the Jews rejected Jesus, they opened to door for us to get in with God, the true God of Abraham who is, BTW, my creator and God too. FYI, you don't have the monopoly of the things of God.

And we have never claimed to. All that you say may be true; not my business, not my concern. But whatever New Covenants God has begun with Gentiles, the Old Covenant is still in effect. It was eternal, and God will not break it. If you are claiming that Jews are no longer in God's favor and are doomed in whatever way, you are calling God a liar yourself.

If the gospel wasn't an offense, or if you saw Jesus as no more important than Budda, you wouldn't be responding to my posts...

Once again; nah. You overestimate your importance. I just don't like to see arrogance and crypto-antisemitism go by without comment. You see, it's the "Replacement Theology" that you preach here that lies behind the centuries of persecution, exile and murder to which my people have been subjected by both Christians and Muslims, from the fall of Rome to the present day.

I am not antisemitic
... it is to your shame. Muslims and Christians would say the same on your view of Jesus, because you see him as not even a true prophet. Jesus will receiver the reward of His suffering.

Muslims say that Jews are the descendants of dogs and pigs. We get along with Christians rather better now, but the Holocaust was carried out by Christians, and Christians -- with the exception of the Confessing Church -- stood by and let it happen. Don't preach to me about the failings of my religion. Look to your own.

I'm done. I don't normally interact with proselytizers, particularly those who take the tack that I'm REQUIRED to abandon my own faith and follow theirs on pain of going to Hell, and quote "Scriptures" that aren't in my Bible to do it. Have a nice day.

You are not required by me to do anything. We are all free to choose as we will, but we are not free from the consequences of our choices. If you are done, then do so already and stop saying it in all your post regarding my threads and posts, or continuing posting and humor me since it seems to entertain you or I am a "Diversion ..... a bit of entertainment in an otherwise dull day." You strike me as not being honest here. If you're so entertained, you wouldn't be saying "I am done" showing a measure if irritation at my posts.

You're right about the torah and all; it is eternal. IMO, Jesus is the total spiritual sum of all of what you speak of. All the sacrifices & festivals that happened in the OT are types and shadows that find its fulfillment in Christ. Once Christ appeared the types and shadows of Christ can profit nothing.

I am calling it the way Christians see it. I don't expect you to believe it. I respect your choice to remain just as you are. I do not believe Jews are descendants of monkeys and pigs. I never did and never will nor am I antisemitic. That is to the shame of Islam. I see most Muslims as jealous step brothers, because the child of promise is with Isaac and Jacob from where Jesus descends and not Ishmael.

I said nothing to you about your failed religion. You brought that up in this post. I said it is a shame you reject Jesus (Yeshua) still, but I won't agree with you that Christians caused the holocaust. Hitler did and he was a nominal Catholic; he was into Evolution and Darwinism. This is what deluded him into believe there are such things as a super race. How could such an idea come out of the teaching of Jesus and the Biblical Christians? You are looking for any and very excuses to block out Christ. You call Jesus "Whathisname," and I can see that the Jews today refer to Christmas as "Xmas." They don't mind making money on Christmas, but they do everything they could to avoid the name of Jesus Christ. If it meant no more than Buddah or Muhammad etc, they wouldn't try to avoid seeing or hearing the name of Jesus Christ. That is another reason you don't strike me as being honest in your comments.

BTW, you left out that the true Biblical Christians risked their lives to save and hid Jews. Why don't you give credit where it is due? True Christians never agreed with Hitler or remained passive. If I had the power and live at that time, I would have shot him in the head myself, but what could so few do among so many armed soliders. I would have put my life on the line to help those persecuted by his reight whether they were Jews or not.

It is written: "If you refuse the love of truth, God sends a strong delusion that you might believe a lie" WADR & IMHO, I see this in you!

[Suluby]

Okay this is true , but it was the religious leaders of Jesus' time that hated his message and felt threatened by it. They were jealous.

Nah. The "religious leaders" of the time feared the PEOPLE. They were incredibly corrupt and were collaborating with the Roman conquerors for personal power and gain, and everybody knew it. Same goes for the Herods; remember John the Baptist?

Jesus was probably executed for stirring up trouble for ALL of them, the Romans, the phony Kings, and the Temple cult, who were all in bed together on the backs of the common people. In a few years, the hereditary Temple priesthood and the Judaism that was dominated by it would be extinct, and the Pharaisaic Judaism of Jesus's day, with which he was largely sympathetic if not an actual part, would be all that was left. Torah study, focused on ethics, justice, and liberty, and prayer, all centered in the local community. Temple, bye-bye. Don't need it any more. Don't need a Savior, either.

I don't believe that Jews for the most part think about Jesus like they see Budda. Budda is not threat to Jews Christians or Muslims. But Jesus is a rock of offense to all who reject His lordship.

"Rock of offense"? The only offense I see is people presuming to tell Jews how they think and feel, and implicitly telling us how to read a book that was produced by OUR people and OUR beliefs, and not yours nor anyone else's. You don't get to dictate the proper beliefs of Jews, much less their thoughts; and your opinions matter about as much as the Buddha's.

Whatshisname isn't a "threat" to the Jews. We've done just fine without so much as mentioning him for two thousand years, thanks.

Sorry, this isn't worth my time. Believe what you like; it has absolutely nothing to do with me or my people, and I have no interest in it.

Jesus was sent to the Jews by God. He came unto His own, but His own received Him not, but as many as received Him to them gave he the power to become the sons of God. I am a child of God, and I have every right, for I am a grafted in olive branch.

I believe Paul who said, "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly by inwardly. God has adopted me. The mantel has been passed on to the gentiles who received the King and Lord the Jews rejected. When the Jews rejected Jesus, they opened to door for us to get in with God, the true God of Abraham who is, BTW, my creator and God too. FYI, you don't have the monopoly of the things of God.

And we have never claimed to. All that you say may be true; not my business, not my concern. But whatever New Covenants God has begun with Gentiles, the Old Covenant is still in effect. It was eternal, and God will not break it. If you are claiming that Jews are no longer in God's favor and are doomed in whatever way, you are calling God a liar yourself.

If the gospel wasn't an offense, or if you saw Jesus as no more important than Budda, you wouldn't be responding to my posts...

Once again; nah. You overestimate your importance. I just don't like to see arrogance and crypto-antisemitism go by without comment. You see, it's the "Replacement Theology" that you preach here that lies behind the centuries of persecution, exile and murder to which my people have been subjected by both Christians and Muslims, from the fall of Rome to the present day.

I am not antisemitic
... it is to your shame. Muslims and Christians would say the same on your view of Jesus, because you see him as not even a true prophet. Jesus will receiver the reward of His suffering.

Muslims say that Jews are the descendants of dogs and pigs. We get along with Christians rather better now, but the Holocaust was carried out by Christians, and Christians -- with the exception of the Confessing Church -- stood by and let it happen. Don't preach to me about the failings of my religion. Look to your own.

I'm done. I don't normally interact with proselytizers, particularly those who take the tack that I'm REQUIRED to abandon my own faith and follow theirs on pain of going to Hell, and quote "Scriptures" that aren't in my Bible to do it. Have a nice day.

You are not required by me to do anything. We are all free to choose as we will, but we are not free from the consequences of our choices. If you are done, then do so already and stop saying it in all your post regarding my threads and posts, or continuing posting and humor me since it seems to entertain you or I am a "Diversion ..... a bit of entertainment in an otherwise dull day." You strike me as not being honest here. If you're so entertained, you wouldn't be saying "I am done" showing a measure if irritation at my posts.

Burning .... you're working yourself up into a good self-righteous lather! But it's clouding your mind ..... because CNorman and Suluby are not the same poster. You are holding CNorman for things that I said.

You think I am dishonest? Come walk in my shoes for a mile or two ..... I'll let you borrow my cane, too. This little box, with it's wide window is my only outlet to the world, most days. If I find you there and I happen to disagree with what you say, I will speak up. You do ...... why shouldn't I?

You're right about the torah and all; it is eternal. IMO, Jesus is the total spiritual sum of all of what you speak of. All the sacrifices & festivals that happened in the OT are types and shadows that find its fulfillment in Christ. Once Christ appeared the types and shadows of Christ can profit nothing.

So the Torah and its instructions and guidelines are eternal ..... but they can be ignored now?

That's not eternal ..... that is passe, unnecessary, out-of-date, obsolete ..... choose any word you want. It still makes G-d out to be a liar because S/He said that we are to OBSERVE the commandments forever.

I am calling it the way Christians see it. I don't expect you to believe it. I respect your choice to remain just as you are. I do not believe Jews are descendants of monkeys and pigs. I never did and never will nor am I antisemitic. That is to the shame of Islam. I see most Muslims as jealous step brothers, because the child of promise is with Isaac and Jacob from where Jesus descends and not Ishmael.

You are calling it the way YOU see it. Do you presume to be THE spokesperson for all of Christendom? If you don't - then you are not speaking for ALL Christians.

You say you are not an antisemite. You may not be, overtly. But when faced with Jews who refuse to worship your god just the way you do, you revert to calling us Christ-killers. What you want is for every Jew to give up what makes them what they are ..... you want us to give up our religion and adopt yours. You want - whether you are capable of understanding it or acknowledging it - us to all become Christians. You want to end Judaism forever.

There's only one name for that.

I said nothing to you about your failed religion.

Except that it is all wrong, we Jews do not understand our own scripture, we have everything we know wrong ..... even your terminology here - our "failed religion" - just proves your disdain!

Failed?? How did you arrive at that starling conclusion? Because Judaism - Orthodox Judaism - is experiencing an amazing resurgence and growth? Because Israel is known as the "Start-Up" country where new discoveries and new technology come to the world almost faster than the world can handle and absorb them? Because no matter what the world's peoples have done to us they have NEVER managed to shake us free of the rock that has been and always will be our foundation - the Torah? You mean that kind of "failed"?

You brought that up in this post. I said it is a shame you reject Jesus (Yeshua) still,

If only he had done the job, we would have acclaimed him messiah. But he didn't. And he never would have been our savior ..... that is G-d and G-d alone. That never was the messiah's job.

but I won't agree with you that Christians caused the holocaust. Hitler did and he was a nominal Catholic; he was into Evolution and Darwinism. This is what deluded him into believe there are such things as a super race. How could such an idea come out of the teaching of Jesus and the Biblical Christians? You are looking for any and very excuses to block out Christ.

Oh. So Martin Luther's disgusting screeds - extremely antisemitic - can just be ignored? So centuries of preaching that Jews are Christ-killers can just be ignored? So the Blood Libel - that Jews kidnap and kill cute little innocent Christian babies to use their blood to make matzah for Passover - can just be ignored? You deny the truth when you deny that Christendom spent centuries preparing the populace ..... and when a Hitler comes along, the fertile ground is ready. He plants the seeds and they grow ..... and they almost destroyed the world.

You call Jesus "Whathisname," and I can see that the Jews today refer to Christmas as "Xmas." They don't mind making money on Christmas, but they do everything they could to avoid the name of Jesus Christ.

ROTFL You have got to be kidding???? Unfortunately, I fear you are not!

Now the imagined war on Christmas is the fault of the Jews???? And all the Jews get rich off the backs of poor hardworking Christians???? Of course, Jews are holding guns to the heads of all those poor persecuted Christians ..... forcing them to go shopping in a frenzy ..... spending money they don't have for [strike]sh%t[/strike] stuff they don't need ..... and putting all of it under a pagan symbol of the winter solstice - the Christmas tree ..... to celebrate the birth of their god- who was most definitely not born on December 25th!!!


What was that you said earlier ..... that you aren't an antisemite??

If it meant no more than Buddah or Muhammad etc, they wouldn't try to avoid seeing or hearing the name of Jesus Christ. That is another reason you don't strike me as being honest in your comments.

That's just so much bovine fecal material! It is impossible to live in 21st century America and not see or hear Jesus mentioned all the time! Especially politicians!! They beat poor Jesus like a rented mule to get even more power! And people like you lap it up!!

BTW, you left out that the true Biblical Christians risked their lives to save and hid Jews. Why don't you give credit where it is due?

I did. You weren't paying attention, apparently, to what I actually said.

True Christians never agreed with Hitler or remained passive. If I had the power and live at that time, I would have shot him in the head myself, but what could so few do among so many armed soliders. I would have put my life on the line to help those persecuted by his reight whether they were Jews or not.

"True" Christians? Like the Catholic nuns and priests who hid so many children? Oh, wait! You said Catholics are not "true" Christians!

Sorry if I just don't believe your protestations of extreme bravery and your offer to assassinate Hitler ..... but when put into juxtaposition with everything else you've said ..... ah no, I am unable to buy that.

It is written: "If you refuse the love of truth, God sends a strong delusion that you might believe a lie" WADR & IMHO, I see this in you!

And so it goes. On and on and on and on and on and on ..............


.

[Autodidact]

I am calling it the way Christians see it. I don't expect you to believe it. I respect your choice to remain just as you are. I do not believe Jews are descendants of monkeys and pigs. I never did and never will nor am I antisemitic. That is to the shame of Islam. I see most Muslims as jealous step brothers, because the child of promise is with Isaac and Jacob from where Jesus descends and not Ishmael.

But you do believe that I am doomed to suffer eternal torment, correct?

I said nothing to you about your failed religion. You brought that up in this post. I said it is a shame you reject Jesus (Yeshua) still, but I won't agree with you that Christians caused the holocaust.

It's a shame that you don't.

Hitler did and he was a nominal Catholic; he was into Evolution and Darwinism.

Hitler lived and died a Christian his entire life, and the Germans sho slaughtered millions were all Christian.

This is what deluded him into believe there are such things as a super race. How could such an idea come out of the teaching of Jesus and the Biblical Christians?

Because the Bible teaches that the Jews "rejected" and then killed God.

You are looking for any and very excuses to block out Christ.

I don't need excuses, there is no Christ to reject.

You call Jesus "Whathisname," and I can see that the Jews today refer to Christmas as "Xmas." They don't mind making money on Christmas, but they do everything they could to avoid the name of Jesus Christ. If it meant no more than Buddah or Muhammad etc, they wouldn't try to avoid seeing or hearing the name of Jesus Christ. That is another reason you don't strike me as being honest in your comments.

Buddhists haven't spent the last few hundred years trying to annihilate us. And that is what the name "Jesus Christ" means to me--someone whose worshippers try to wipe us off the face of the earth.

BTW, you left out that the true Biblical Christians risked their lives to save and hid Jews.

You crack me up. So if someone claims Jesus as their savior, but commits evil, you say they're not real Christians. Please define "Christian" for us.

Why don't you give credit where it is due? True Christians never agreed with Hitler or remained passive. If I had the power and live at that time, I would have shot him in the head myself, but what could so few do among so many armed soliders. I would have put my life on the line to help those persecuted by his reight whether they were Jews or not.

Easy to say now, isn't it. In reality, very, very few calling themselves Christian did so.

It is written: "If you refuse the love of truth, God sends a strong delusion that you might believe a lie" WADR & IMHO, I see this in you!

And I in you.

[Burninglight]

Okay this is true , but it was the religious leaders of Jesus' time that hated his message and felt threatened by it. They were jealous.

Nah. The "religious leaders" of the time feared the PEOPLE. They were incredibly corrupt and were collaborating with the Roman conquerors for personal power and gain, and everybody knew it. Same goes for the Herods; remember John the Baptist?

Jesus was probably executed for stirring up trouble for ALL of them, the Romans, the phony Kings, and the Temple cult, who were all in bed together on the backs of the common people. In a few years, the hereditary Temple priesthood and the Judaism that was dominated by it would be extinct, and the Pharaisaic Judaism of Jesus's day, with which he was largely sympathetic if not an actual part, would be all that was left. Torah study, focused on ethics, justice, and liberty, and prayer, all centered in the local community. Temple, bye-bye. Don't need it any more. Don't need a Savior, either.

I don't believe that Jews for the most part think about Jesus like they see Budda. Budda is not threat to Jews Christians or Muslims. But Jesus is a rock of offense to all who reject His lordship.

"Rock of offense"? The only offense I see is people presuming to tell Jews how they think and feel, and implicitly telling us how to read a book that was produced by OUR people and OUR beliefs, and not yours nor anyone else's. You don't get to dictate the proper beliefs of Jews, much less their thoughts; and your opinions matter about as much as the Buddha's.

Whatshisname isn't a "threat" to the Jews. We've done just fine without so much as mentioning him for two thousand years, thanks.

Sorry, this isn't worth my time. Believe what you like; it has absolutely nothing to do with me or my people, and I have no interest in it.

Jesus was sent to the Jews by God. He came unto His own, but His own received Him not, but as many as received Him to them gave he the power to become the sons of God. I am a child of God, and I have every right, for I am a grafted in olive branch.

I believe Paul who said, "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly by inwardly. God has adopted me. The mantel has been passed on to the gentiles who received the King and Lord the Jews rejected. When the Jews rejected Jesus, they opened to door for us to get in with God, the true God of Abraham who is, BTW, my creator and God too. FYI, you don't have the monopoly of the things of God.

And we have never claimed to. All that you say may be true; not my business, not my concern. But whatever New Covenants God has begun with Gentiles, the Old Covenant is still in effect. It was eternal, and God will not break it. If you are claiming that Jews are no longer in God's favor and are doomed in whatever way, you are calling God a liar yourself.

If the gospel wasn't an offense, or if you saw Jesus as no more important than Budda, you wouldn't be responding to my posts...

Once again; nah. You overestimate your importance. I just don't like to see arrogance and crypto-antisemitism go by without comment. You see, it's the "Replacement Theology" that you preach here that lies behind the centuries of persecution, exile and murder to which my people have been subjected by both Christians and Muslims, from the fall of Rome to the present day.

I am not antisemitic
... it is to your shame. Muslims and Christians would say the same on your view of Jesus, because you see him as not even a true prophet. Jesus will receiver the reward of His suffering.

Muslims say that Jews are the descendants of dogs and pigs. We get along with Christians rather better now, but the Holocaust was carried out by Christians, and Christians -- with the exception of the Confessing Church -- stood by and let it happen. Don't preach to me about the failings of my religion. Look to your own.

I'm done. I don't normally interact with proselytizers, particularly those who take the tack that I'm REQUIRED to abandon my own faith and follow theirs on pain of going to Hell, and quote "Scriptures" that aren't in my Bible to do it. Have a nice day.

You are not required by me to do anything. We are all free to choose as we will, but we are not free from the consequences of our choices. If you are done, then do so already and stop saying it in all your post regarding my threads and posts, or continuing posting and humor me since it seems to entertain you or I am a "Diversion ..... a bit of entertainment in an otherwise dull day." You strike me as not being honest here. If you're so entertained, you wouldn't be saying "I am done" showing a measure if irritation at my posts.

Burning .... you're working yourself up into a good self-righteous lather! But it's clouding your mind ..... because CNorman and Suluby are not the same poster. You are holding CNorman for things that I said.

You think I am dishonest? Come walk in my shoes for a mile or two ..... I'll let you borrow my cane, too. This little box, with it's wide window is my only outlet to the world, most days. If I find you there and I happen to disagree with what you say, I will speak up. You do ...... why shouldn't I?

You're right about the torah and all; it is eternal. IMO, Jesus is the total spiritual sum of all of what you speak of. All the sacrifices & festivals that happened in the OT are types and shadows that find its fulfillment in Christ. Once Christ appeared the types and shadows of Christ can profit nothing.

So the Torah and its instructions and guidelines are eternal ..... but they can be ignored now?

That's not eternal ..... that is passe, unnecessary, out-of-date, obsolete ..... choose any word you want. It still makes G-d out to be a liar because S/He said that we are to OBSERVE the commandments forever.

I am calling it the way Christians see it. I don't expect you to believe it. I respect your choice to remain just as you are. I do not believe Jews are descendants of monkeys and pigs. I never did and never will nor am I antisemitic. That is to the shame of Islam. I see most Muslims as jealous step brothers, because the child of promise is with Isaac and Jacob from where Jesus descends and not Ishmael.

You are calling it the way YOU see it. Do you presume to be THE spokesperson for all of Christendom? If you don't - then you are not speaking for ALL Christians.

You say you are not an antisemite. You may not be, overtly. But when faced with Jews who refuse to worship your god just the way you do, you revert to calling us Christ-killers. What you want is for every Jew to give up what makes them what they are ..... you want us to give up our religion and adopt yours. You want - whether you are capable of understanding it or acknowledging it - us to all become Christians. You want to end Judaism forever.

There's only one name for that.

I said nothing to you about your failed religion.

Except that it is all wrong, we Jews do not understand our own scripture, we have everything we know wrong ..... even your terminology here - our "failed religion" - just proves your disdain!

Failed?? How did you arrive at that starling conclusion? Because Judaism - Orthodox Judaism - is experiencing an amazing resurgence and growth? Because Israel is known as the "Start-Up" country where new discoveries and new technology come to the world almost faster than the world can handle and absorb them? Because no matter what the world's peoples have done to us they have NEVER managed to shake us free of the rock that has been and always will be our foundation - the Torah? You mean that kind of "failed"?

You brought that up in this post. I said it is a shame you reject Jesus (Yeshua) still,

If only he had done the job, we would have acclaimed him messiah. But he didn't. And he never would have been our savior ..... that is G-d and G-d alone. That never was the messiah's job.

but I won't agree with you that Christians caused the holocaust. Hitler did and he was a nominal Catholic; he was into Evolution and Darwinism. This is what deluded him into believe there are such things as a super race. How could such an idea come out of the teaching of Jesus and the Biblical Christians? You are looking for any and very excuses to block out Christ.

Oh. So Martin Luther's disgusting screeds - extremely antisemitic - can just be ignored? So centuries of preaching that Jews are Christ-killers can just be ignored? So the Blood Libel - that Jews kidnap and kill cute little innocent Christian babies to use their blood to make matzah for Passover - can just be ignored? You deny the truth when you deny that Christendom spent centuries preparing the populace ..... and when a Hitler comes along, the fertile ground is ready. He plants the seeds and they grow ..... and they almost destroyed the world.

You call Jesus "Whathisname," and I can see that the Jews today refer to Christmas as "Xmas." They don't mind making money on Christmas, but they do everything they could to avoid the name of Jesus Christ.

ROTFL You have got to be kidding???? Unfortunately, I fear you are not!

Now the imagined war on Christmas is the fault of the Jews???? And all the Jews get rich off the backs of poor hardworking Christians???? Of course, Jews are holding guns to the heads of all those poor persecuted Christians ..... forcing them to go shopping in a frenzy ..... spending money they don't have for [strike]sh%t[/strike] stuff they don't need ..... and putting all of it under a pagan symbol of the winter solstice - the Christmas tree ..... to celebrate the birth of their god- who was most definitely not born on December 25th!!!


What was that you said earlier ..... that you aren't an antisemite??

If it meant no more than Buddah or Muhammad etc, they wouldn't try to avoid seeing or hearing the name of Jesus Christ. That is another reason you don't strike me as being honest in your comments.

That's just so much bovine fecal material! It is impossible to live in 21st century America and not see or hear Jesus mentioned all the time! Especially politicians!! They beat poor Jesus like a rented mule to get even more power! And people like you lap it up!!

BTW, you left out that the true Biblical Christians risked their lives to save and hid Jews. Why don't you give credit where it is due?

I did. You weren't paying attention, apparently, to what I actually said.

True Christians never agreed with Hitler or remained passive. If I had the power and live at that time, I would have shot him in the head myself, but what could so few do among so many armed soliders. I would have put my life on the line to help those persecuted by his reight whether they were Jews or not.

"True" Christians? Like the Catholic nuns and priests who hid so many children? Oh, wait! You said Catholics are not "true" Christians!

Sorry if I just don't believe your protestations of extreme bravery and your offer to assassinate Hitler ..... but when put into juxtaposition with everything else you've said ..... ah no, I am unable to buy that.

It is written: "If you refuse the love of truth, God sends a strong delusion that you might believe a lie" WADR & IMHO, I see this in you!

And so it goes. On and on and on and on and on and on ..............


.

Friend, I take it that you are Jewish, but you identify with being an atheist. Your saying Christ doesn't exist is like me saying the holocaust never happened and Hitler never existed. You need to define antisemitism since you are implying I am, but not overtly. Your explanation of what I do is not antisemitism. It seems you are saying that everyone who doesn't believe in Judaism as God's will for Jews or the world is antisemitic. I am not against any Jews, but I am definitely not for Islam or Judaism. FYI, one can be against a religion without being against the person. Do you know the difference? Muslim don't seem to.

Let me define Christian for you:
A true Biblical Christian is someone who is not a nominal Christian; iow, someone who has Christ living inside their heart. One who followers the teachings of Christ that taught us to love our enemies and pray for those that despitefully use us. He is someone who lays down his life for a friend. Someone who helps the needy regardless of race or nationality. Someone who visits the the sick and those in prisons. Someone who shares their food with the hungry and cloth the naked. Those who call themselves Christians and beat their fellow man into subjection are not following the will of God. On the last day they they might be the ones that say "Lord, Lord didn't we do many great works in your name?" and the Lord will say "I never knew you depart from me you workers of iniquity." Finally, A Christians is someone who loves God with all his heart, soul and mind and his neighbor as himself!

I know Jesus wasn't born of December 25th, but what does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

[Suluby]

Friend, I take it that you are Jewish, but you identify with being an atheist.

You are very confused! First you thought I was a Muslim, now you are sure I'm an atheist. What will you think I am next???

I am Jewish. I have always been Jewish and I always will be Jewish. I believe in G-d, the One, the Ineffable, the Unexplainable, the indivisible One G-d. I do not believe G-d was ever a human being.

Are we clear on that, now?

Your saying Christ doesn't exist is like me saying the holocaust never happened and Hitler never existed.

I have NEVER EVER said that I do not believe that a man named Jesus ever existed. EVER.

You don't closely read what other poster actually say, do you? Or maybe you just don't understand what they say. Whatever. But you really must stop putting words in my mouth!

You need to define antisemitism since you are implyingI am but not overtly, because your explanation of what I do is not antisemitism. You are saying that everyone who doesn't believe in Judaism as God's will for Jews or the world is antisemitic. I am not against any Jews, but I am definitely not for Islam or Judaism.

Yeah, sure. Judaism is a failed religion. Jews are Christ-killers. Jews get rich making money off poor beleaguered Christians.

Those are YOUR words ..... and they are not indicative of respect, regard or love.

FYI, one can be against a religion without being against the person. Do you know the difference? Muslim don't seem to.

I know that. I also know that there is a very fine line between being against a religion and being against a person of that religion. And I noticed when that talk started coming from you ...... it was when you were faced with someone who would not back down. It's very reasonable to think that it is you who cannot separate the person and their religion, because it is you who uses that kind of denigration when others must defend their religions against your onslaughts.

I am not a Muslim. Why do you persist with that????

Let me define Christian for you:
A true Biblical Christian is someone who is not a nominal Christian; iow, someone who has Christ living inside their heart. One who followers the teachings of Christ that taught us to love our enemies and pray for those that despitefully use you. It is someone who lays down his life for a friend. Someone who helps the needy regardless of race or nationality. Someone who visits the the sick and those in prisons. Who share their food with the hunger cloth the naked. Those who call themselves Christians and beat their fellow man into subjection are not following the will of God. On the last they they might be the ones that say "Lord, Lord didn't we do many great works in your name?" and the Lord will say I never knew you depart from me you workers of iniquity. Finally, A Christians is someone who loves God with all his heart, soul and mind and his neighbor as himself!

That's all well and good. I knew that.

But I so rarely see anyone acting that way ..... online. No compassion, no friendship, no respect, no live and let live. What I do see most often is people like you. When you can't lead us down the cyber-aisle to the altar call screaming "Jeeeesssuuuusss" and diving headfirst into the cyber-baptismal font - it's "Jews are Christ-killers"!

Oh, BTW ..... lots and lots and lots of people are "True Christians" and HUGE numbers of them don't worship Jesus. They are mentschen ..... decent, caring, loving people who care about others and take care of them.

Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, pagans ..... I know many of them who do all the things you say make one a "True" Christian. Why do you seem to think that only Christians ..... only "True" Christians at that, act that way?

Such decency, such humanity, such humility is not the exclusive possession of only those who meet your standards of being a "True Christian".

I know Jesus wasn't born of December 25th, but what does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

About as much as your snide and very nasty and very untrue statement that Jews hate Christmas but get rich off of Christians.

Nobody is holding a gun to the heads of those people who put more stock in what money can buy for them than the true reason for the season. Especially not the Jews. They do it to themselves. But you need to find someone else to blame ......... and you pick the Jews. In your mind - based on your words - it is the fault of the Jews.


.

[Burninglight]

Friend, I take it that you are Jewish, but you identify with being an atheist.

You are very confused! First you thought I was a Muslim, now you are sure I'm an atheist. What will you think I am next???

I am Jewish. I have always been Jewish and I always will be Jewish. I believe in G-d, the One, the Ineffable, the Unexplainable, the indivisible One G-d. I do not believe G-d was ever a human being.

Are we clear on that, now?

Your saying Christ doesn't exist is like me saying the holocaust never happened and Hitler never existed.

I have NEVER EVER said that I do not believe that a man named Jesus ever existed. EVER.

You don't closely read what other poster actually say, do you? Or maybe you just don't understand what they say. Whatever. But you really must stop putting words in my mouth!

You need to define antisemitism since you are implyingI am but not overtly, because your explanation of what I do is not antisemitism. You are saying that everyone who doesn't believe in Judaism as God's will for Jews or the world is antisemitic. I am not against any Jews, but I am definitely not for Islam or Judaism.

Yeah, sure. Judaism is a failed religion. Jews are Christ-killers. Jews get rich making money off poor beleaguered Christians.

Those are YOUR words ..... and they are not indicative of respect, regard or love.

FYI, one can be against a religion without being against the person. Do you know the difference? Muslim don't seem to.

I know that. I also know that there is a very fine line between being against a religion and being against a person of that religion. And I noticed when that talk started coming from you ...... it was when you were faced with someone who would not back down. It's very reasonable to think that it is you who cannot separate the person and their religion, because it is you who uses that kind of denigration when others must defend their religions against your onslaughts.

I am not a Muslim. Why do you persist with that????

Let me define Christian for you:
A true Biblical Christian is someone who is not a nominal Christian; iow, someone who has Christ living inside their heart. One who followers the teachings of Christ that taught us to love our enemies and pray for those that despitefully use you. It is someone who lays down his life for a friend. Someone who helps the needy regardless of race or nationality. Someone who visits the the sick and those in prisons. Who share their food with the hunger cloth the naked. Those who call themselves Christians and beat their fellow man into subjection are not following the will of God. On the last they they might be the ones that say "Lord, Lord didn't we do many great works in your name?" and the Lord will say I never knew you depart from me you workers of iniquity. Finally, A Christians is someone who loves God with all his heart, soul and mind and his neighbor as himself!

That's all well and good. I knew that.

But I so rarely see anyone acting that way ..... online. No compassion, no friendship, no respect, no live and let live. What I do see most often is people like you. When you can't lead us down the cyber-aisle to the altar call screaming "Jeeeesssuuuusss" and diving headfirst into the cyber-baptismal font - it's "Jews are Christ-killers"!

Oh, BTW ..... lots and lots and lots of people are "True Christians" and HUGE numbers of them don't worship Jesus. They are mentschen ..... decent, caring, loving people who care about others and take care of them.

Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, pagans ..... I know many of them who do all the things you say make one a "True" Christian. Why do you seem to think that only Christians ..... only "True" Christians at that, act that way?

Such decency, such humanity, such humility is not the exclusive possession of only those who meet your standards of being a "True Christian".

I know Jesus wasn't born of December 25th, but what does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

About as much as your snide and very nasty and very untrue statement that Jews hate Christmas but get rich off of Christians.

Nobody is holding a gun to the heads of those people who put more stock in what money can buy for them than the true reason for the season. Especially not the Jews. They do it to themselves. But you need to find someone else to blame ......... and you pick the Jews. In your mind - based on your words - it is the fault of the Jews.


.

First of all, my apologies on not getting your religion correct. Secondly, it is true that non Christians do kind, loving things for others and they do reap in this life what they sow, but in the life to come, that is not something that can be earned or bought. It is a gift, and to receive it, we must meet God on His terms. Thirdly, I am not putting words in your mouth intentionally, but I wish I could say the same about you.

For instance, I never said Jews hate Christmas, I said they take the Christ out of it, and I wasn't meaning to post that to you. I never said they are looking to make money off of Christians either. IMO, they do not discriminate on who to make money from. I never said there is anything wrong with it either. I just pointed out that they take the name of Christ out of Christmas by saying Xmas. They don't acknowledge the reason for the season. I believe God doesn't like when people ignore His son. That goes for any person not just Jewish people.

It looks like you are trying to demonize me. For what? Speaking the truth?
BTW, a true Christian that doesn't worship Jesus is an oxymornon! Most Catholics IMO, are nominal Christians. I used to be one so I know. But that is not all Catholics.

A true follower of God can be called catholic or a Muslim if you look at the true meanings of those words, but God looks at the heart.

[Goat]

I will deal with your points as I can. You said, "David is not a prophet." That is incorrect: Acts 2: 29 “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.�’

36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.�

Jesus is called the Lion of the tribe of Judah. If those prophecies weren't about Jesus, then who are they about? In the OT days people lived for 100s of years.

Herod kills children (Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:16)

"And nobody noticed …. Not even Josephus? You’d think that if there were this massacre of Jewish male babies – future taxpayers to the Roman Empire ….. someone would have noticed and complained!

But nobody did ….. other than the disciples, writing well after the supposed fact. You says there were many massacred to have an affect on tax payers?" It could have just been 20 or 30 male children killed. No number was specified. If the disciples noticed and documented it you can't say nobody noticed it.

Eh.. it doesn't matter what acts said about David. As far as the Jewish scripture is concerned, the New Testament is not scripture and not from God. .. and what you call 'The Old Testament' IS the scriptures of the Jewish people. When you Christians read from the Jewish scriptures and interpret it.. well, you get it wrong. It's not your fault, because it's not your book.

Now, the thing is.. the books you claim were 'documented by the disciples' were not even WRITTEN by them.. but decades later, by people who wanted to relate their new Books with things that happened in the Jewish scriptures. Even if it was 2 or 3.. I think the people who were historians and hated Herod would have said something.

Your explanation rings hollow.