My Ideology

[Scrotum]

For the fun of it, i thought i would give you the basis of my Utopia. This is just a rough sketch, and im not intending to go into how to get there, rather how it would be, if we would be there.


Utopia 5.0 (epsilon)

My World would consist of a one world government, with Western Europe (Including Scandinavia, exluding South-Westet such as Spain, and total exclusion of Eastern States), and Part of North America such as United States Exluding the so called ´Bible Belt´, and Canada. Australia and the Oceania area that is westernized, and Japan, South Korea.

Of course there are other areas to, but the rest would either be used as dumps or decimated.


The world population would be set to a suitable number around 500 million to 1 billion, as this gives the opportunity to give everyone equal chances and worth, and no one will suffer.


The population would either have been temporarily sterilized, or permanently depending on situation. The government would be in control of birthing and raising the children making sure they will not get such dieases such as Diabetes, Polio and similar.

To prevent a plauge such as religion to enter their mind, only proper education will be applied and a ´abortion´ system will be active up to 25 years old, as if they would start believing in things that do not exist (such as God), they would be either terminated, or sent to a camp of some sort (perhaps an Island?), where they wil lget editional education, and if they continue showing ignorance (religion or similar) they will be marked as annulled, and terminated (we do not have the possibility to make them well).


Everyone is equal in the society, except that proper education has made them aware that everyone is not equal mentally, but only ´physically´.

The government consists of the Elite (most intelligent). And could be either One man, or several. I was thinking a system such as a rotating ´Democracy´, where we have a 100 of the true elite, getting exchanged each 6 months with new. Each ´member´ already have a job, there is no difference between them and none governmental, except they have the capacity do make choices to improve the society.

If someone from the lower class (less intelligent or considered less ´worth´ in society) wants to make a conribution he is welcome to go wave it for the government. For example he thinks he has a system that could improve the World (Nation), and he only needs to show how it would work, and why it would be better. If it would, it would be implemented.

The same goes for everything, if someone have an invetion they think will improve the life and quality in someway, anyone is open to show in what way, and if it would, it would taken into production.


Money would not exist obviously, we truly need no money. As everything is ´owned´ by everyone, everything goes around, only difference is, no one has more then anyone else, or rather, no one has anything they dont need. Everyone has a healthy life, and is getting all opportune to become more intelligent and evolve all the time.


So, anything you think is bad about this sketch?

[Bugmaster]

Sounds kind of like the Brave New World, only not as good. I think that, as far as modest proposals go, Swift is better at it than you are :-)

The main reason that all of these Utopias fail is that they expect every human to work joyfully and selflessly toward the perfect union of happiness and progress and blah blah. Humans aren't built that way, though -- they're individuals, not drones -- so you inevitably get a dictatorship, instead, with the craftiest individual rising to the top.

It would be interesting to contemplate a hive mind type of society, with all traces of individuality removed. While such a society might be more efficient than ours (though I doubt even that), it would definitely not be human anymore. Additionally, such a society would be prone to cascading global failures, just as any other monoculture (such as the monoculture of potatoes in Ireland, or whatnot).

[Scrotum]

Pfft, Swift, not a chance.


Well, the problem is like you say, that some people do not want a good society but are egocentric, and thanx to them, they would destroy these societies, Which is sad, especially when they dont see/understand it themselves.


Have you read Utopia? The original by Mr More, it has its ups and downs, and very interesting considering it was written 500 years ago.

[Bugmaster]

Well, the problem is like you say, that some people do not want a good society but are egocentric, and thanx to them, they would destroy these societies, Which is sad, especially when they dont see/understand it themselves.

No, that's not the problem. The problem is that every person's idea of what constitutes a good society is different. No one died and made you El Presidente; your opinion of what a good society should be is not an absolute truth.

For example, here in the United States some people (especially those in power) believe that a good society would not have recreational drugs in it. Some other people disagree, or maybe they only want to eliminate some drugs, and keep the others. As the result, we have a neverending War on Drugs which consumes an enormous amount of money and lives, and creates crime and violence as the result. Can you be certain that you, as the El Presidente, will not create a similar situation ?

I think almost everyone agrees that a society without war, poverty, disease, etc., would be a good thing. However, most people would not be willing to sacrifice their freedom in order to achieve it. Which would you rather be: a healthy, well-fed slave, or a hungry free individual ?

As I said, I think it's possible to achieve a uniform monoculture where everyone thinks the same exact way, and everyone works for the common good, whatever that might be. I argue that such a society would not be human, because all traces of individuality would be lost. I mean, It didn't even work for the Soviet Union, and they tried so hard...

(Oh, and I did read Utopia, but that was a long time ago in high school)

[McCulloch]

For example, here in the United States some people (especially those in power) believe that a good society would not have recreational drugs in it.

Other than nicotine, caffeine, alcohol and hot spices.

[Bugmaster]

For example, here in the United States some people (especially those in power) believe that a good society would not have recreational drugs in it.

Other than nicotine, caffeine, alcohol and hot spices.

Details, details :-)

Although, if the Mormons had their way, our perfect society wouldn't have caffeine, either.

[Scrotum]

No, that's not the problem. The problem is that every person's idea of what constitutes a good society is different. No one died and made you El Presidente; your opinion of what a good society should be is not an absolute truth.

Wrong, there is a clear Univerual "good" for us. What is not BAD for is, is good. We even had a definition of what is "good" in another topic.

This, would be for the society, As much "good" as pssible for as many people as possible, Simple. So if you have a system hat gives all a Healthy life and enough food and shelter, and opportunity to happiness (hobbies, sex, whatnot), it would be good.

And if an idiot comes and say HE would be happy by killing people, well, you can easily calculate that thats not good for the WHOLE community is it ?

[Bugmaster]

I think you are illustrating my point beautifully:

Wrong, there is a clear Univerual "good" for us. What is not BAD for is, is good. We even had a definition of what is "good" in another topic.

First, you claim to know what's best for everybody. You alone are the arbiter of the Universal Good (tm).

So if you have a system hat gives all a Healthy life and enough food and shelter, and opportunity to happiness (hobbies, sex, whatnot), it would be good.

Then, you declare health, sex and hobbies to be the ultimate goals of a society. If we must turn everyone into a drone to achieve these goals, then so be it.

And if an idiot comes and say HE would be happy by killing people...

And finally, you paint everyone who disagrees with you as a roving murderer. Great !

You are exactly the kind of person that is every individual's worst nightmare. I can't wait to hear how you are planning to actually implement your vision. Are we going to gave mandatory sterilization ? Are we going to throw dissenters in jail ? After all, surely Utopia is worth the lives of a few no-good retrogrades, right ?

[Scrotum]

First, you claim to know what's best for everybody. You alone are the arbiter of the Universal Good (tm).

Eh? Im sorry but are you retarded? I explained it so even Harvey would understand, but you dont?

THERE IS A UNIVERSAL ´GOOD´. Go out and have a survey and you will see hat 99.9% of the worlds population would have a similar view if they simplyfied good´d. Bam, I was right. Please no more stupid ignorant comments ok? If you don want to accept it and run around harming people, fine, but then your a extreme minority.

Then, you declare health, sex and hobbies to be the ultimate goals of a society. If we must turn everyone into a drone to achieve these goals, then so be it.

When did I do that? Are you retarded? I gave some easy examples to make sure any working class reading this would undestand the point, but not you?

And you become a drone when you stop thinking abou your own selfish needs and think about human kind instead? Indeed, let me call you a Christian (ignorant).

You are exactly the kind of person that is every individual's worst nightmare. I can't wait to hear how you are planning to actually implement your vision. Are we going to gave mandatory sterilization ? Are we going to throw dissenters in jail ? After all, surely Utopia is worth the lives of a few no-good retrogrades, right ?

Indeed, Worst Nightmare that:

Everyone is happy
Everyone is safe
Everyone has shelter
Everyone has food
Everyone has the opportunity to evolve
Everyone ad-infinitive

Poor them eh? Your one of does americans "hating Communism" to right? Without knowing what i actually is? Anyway, A good way would be sterilization of everyone and let the one die ou we dont want (such as Jews, Christians, Muslims, Retards, Ignorants etcetera). And then "re-boot" the population with a pure breed of Humans.

No Ignorance (Religion). But you dont want that?

[Bugmaster]

Tsk, tsk. Such anger !

THERE IS A UNIVERSAL ´GOOD´

"There is a Universal Good", and "I know what the Universal Good is, and I'll shove it down your throat if I have to", are two very different statements.

And you become a drone when you stop thinking abou your own selfish needs and think about human kind instead?

It depends. Am I thinking on my own on how to better mankind, or am I blindly following the program of El Presidente ?

Everyone is happy
Everyone is safe
Everyone has shelter
Everyone has food
Everyone has the opportunity to evolve

Congratulations, you have just described a bee hive. I don't want to become a bee, even though I do acknowledge (as I have already) that life without individual thought would indeed be happier and more secure. In fact, life without thought, period, would be much happier already.

Anyway, A good way would be sterilization of everyone and let the one die ou we dont want (such as Jews, Christians, Muslims, Retards, Ignorants etcetera). And then "re-boot" the population with a pure breed of Humans.

Hmm, as I recall, there was a leader in our own history who tried doing just that. He got pretty far, but not far enough, mostly because the rest of the world allied against him. Oh, and because some really smart people escaped his country, and came to ours.

You actually remind me of the Communist Party slogan in ye olde USSR: "Everyone must sacrifice for the common good". Well... if everyone sacrifices... where's the good ?