Jehovahs Witnesses only ones that will be saved?????

[Donray]

Jehovahs Witnesses teach that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. God chooses these 144,000 individuals, the process began with the first century Christians and was completed in the year 1935. Of course from 1879 (the year the Watchtower started) till 1935 only faithful Jehovahs Witnesses were chosen for this special role. All faithful Jehovahs Witnesses not chosen to be among the 144,000 elite that go to heaven (those joining the Watchtower after 1935) will spend eternity on earth. All other people on the earth will be destroyed at war of Armageddon here on earth. This would also include any Jehovah's Witnesses who has been disfellowshipped or is otherwise unfaithful to the Watchtower and has not worked his or her way back into the good graces of the Watchtower by the time of Armageddon.

If one believes the JWs all other Christians and everyone that is not a JW will not go to heaven or live on the Earth after Armageddon.

Question for debate is JW the only true Christin religion or is it some type of cult that calls itself Christian?

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 203 by JehovahsWitness]

Yeah but even finding something "pure" or "unused" in today's world is quite tough.

I did not think of the term as being referred to as Jerusalem, that could be possible I guess.

I think I understand the Christ "bride" concept from the "atonement" perspective, but I am I not aware of evidence which connects this concept with the 144.000

If Jesus has 144.000 wives I really feel for him. I think he has been through enough pain already

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 204 by JehovahsWitness]

What I do know is that I do not have a heavenly calling so it is not an option for me.

ok. that's more than I know, I don't even know what a "heavely calling" is.

I mentioned earlier that neither is a "right" both options are a gift. If someone gives you a gift say a Mercedes you don't say "er... yeah thanks but I do believe that you gave someone ELSE a Rolls Royce". The thought gift horse and mouth come to mind...lol

haha..yeah well that is assuming of cause I see being in this world as a gift if I end up as nothing more than worm food....and I don't

I live with the hope of being more than wormfood, so as far as I am concerned both the Mercedes and Rolls Royce is Heaven. Earth to me is a closed casket

[JehovahsWitness]

haha..yeah well that is assuming of cause I see being in this world as a gift if I end up as nothing more than worm food....and I don't I live with the hope of being more than wormfood, so as far as I am concerned both the Mercedes and Rolls Royce is Heaven. Earth to me is a closed casket

Hector, it would be negligent of me to not verify you at least understand what we mean by "live forever in paradise on earth" being God's "gift".

I understand you don't believe it's true (that's the faith part) but, please assure me you understand the basic message: we are talking about living FOREVER, without ever getting sick and never dying but continuing in good health with perfect bodies forever on this our planet earth.

That part did register right?


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

I did not think of the term as being referred to as Jerusalem, that could be possible I guess. I think I understand the Christ "bride" concept from the "atonement" perspective, but I am I not aware of evidence which connects this concept with the 144.000

Okay, this was an error on my part. I introduced some concepts in trying to explain the idea of "spiritual virgins" that were just a little too deep at the moment (no insult intended, even I find some things in the bible difficult to understand and I've been studying it for 35 years). Lets back track and keep it simple.

People going to heaven => 144,000
Those people ruling over earth (from heaven)
Those people lived "pure" lives meaning lived by God's standards as best they could.
Those people referred to as "virgins" but not necessarily literal virgins, meaning they were loyal to Jesus while on earth.

That's all I was trying to say, I over complicated matters and should have done better, sorry,

JW

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 184 by onewithhim] have you been anointed by God?

No. I guess you missed that. I've said many times that I am not anointed and I'm perfectly happy to be able to look forward to living in paradise on earth.

[onewithhim]

Peace to you one,

But the 144,000 is not ALL natural Jews.

Of course not. The 144 000 is made up of the listed TWELVE tribes, not just the two tribes (Judah and Benjamin) that make up the Jews.

So you insist on taking everything in Revelation literally?

Where did I do that?

You insist upon taking the whole number literally, but the individual parts of the number symbolically (because it does not fit with the wts doctrine). You (well, they: the wts) make the part that fits their doctrine literal, and the part that doesn't fit their doctrine, symbolic. So the 144 000 is literal, but the 12000 from each of the twelve tribes is somehow symbolic, and so are the twelve tribes themselves.

You insist on saying that the 144,000 are all natural Jews?

I never once said that.

There are 12 tribes listed. Not just one (or two, including Benjamin in the Jews).

Then explain to me what Revelation 5:9,10 means. These are the same ones who are standing on Mt. Zion with the Lamb at Rev. 14:1.

The Great Crowd is described as being from every tribe, language, nation and tongue... exactly the same as those described at Revelation 5:9, 10.

So answer that: What does Revelation 5:9,10 mean if all of the 144,000 are literally natural Jews?

The 144 000 are literal Israel. Not just literal Jews.

Regardless of that, Revelation 5:9, 10 means exactly what it says. That with His blood, Christ has purchased men from every tribe, nation, tongue and people, and they will reign as kings and priests with Him in His Kingdom.


It cannot be referring only to the 144 000 because there are more tribes than just the 12 listed in the 144000.



The WTS teaches that only these 144 000 (according to their interpretation of what the 144 000 is) should partake, but all other Christians should not. Where did Christ ever say that some of us should eat and drink of His body and blood, and some of us should not? If He never said or taught that, then who are you listening to?


The truth that my Lord has taught me (and not just me) does not require me (or anyone) to disobey Him.





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Revelation 5:9,10 does not refer to the great crowd of chapter 7. The "great crowd" are those many people who "come out of the great tribulation." To come out of something you have to have been in it. So these people are those on the earth who survived the G.T. The 144,000 will be in heaven before Armageddon hits. They stand with the Lamb on Mount Zion in heaven (Revelation 14:1).

The ones mentioned in Revelation 5:9,10 are those same 144,000. They are the ones who will rule with Christ. The great crowd does not rule with Christ in heaven. Only the 144,000 will be kings and priests.

To the Lamb: "'You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.'"

So, really, those kings and priests that will rule with Christ, the 144,000, are actually taken from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, not just the tribes of Israel.



.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 215 by onewithhim]
Does this mean you are only parroting Spiritual truth as you have been instructed by others?
That would be an interesting concept.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 177 by onewithhim]

Excellent post mate! you clarified what I was unsure about with Paradise and Heaven and the 144.000.

But what you wrote gave me a question more

Does anyone really have the desire to go to heaven?

Don't we really want to continue to live here and not die?

Nope not really for me. If heaven is the best, that is what I want. Why should I want less that the best? Earth life is not that great, I can give up ice cream and apple pie if I am can have something which taste better and is more healthy

No one likes to think of their day of death. It's not pleasant, as it should be if they were really excited about going into the spirit world where they would do----what?

It doesn't last long and then its over, what is a short pain to a long time of greater joy? I mean that is like getting a shot from the doctor to feel better, not a big deal to me. I will take the shot. I am not that worried about a little pain to a greater gain. Bring it on! I am a half-dead pirate already what do I have to loose?

Nah. I think people want to live right here and be able to do what they like to do. Fish. Ski. Eat. Swim. Plant gardens. Golf. Restore a car. Have physical relations with a mate. None of that is done in heaven. Why do YOU want to go to heaven?

Better fish? Freedom to fly? No Trump, Hitler or disease?

I could go on, but then I would just appear as a pirate who has difficulty tasting apples

But there are no fish in heaven. There is nothing in heaven that you now enjoy here on the earth. The earth is where humans were created to live. Jehovah made it "the best." He has provided everything here on this planet that we could ever need or want. Heaven would not be "better." It is just different. It would be nice to actually see Jehovah and Jesus, but I am happy to be able to live within the parameters of what they originally created for me. Why would I say to Jehovah, "What you created isn't good enough for me"?

BTW, there will be no individuals like Hitler and Trump in Paradise. Why do you think we have to go to heaven to have perfect conditions?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Donray]

The JW is a very unpleasant cult. Years ago a couple of its members when they called at my door told me my baby son would have been better off dead than receiving a blood transfusion which saved his life!

The medical staff told you it saved his life, but in reality substitutions could have been used just as well, and he would have lived.

Transfusions is like Dark Ages medicine. The medical community now realizes that substitutes are far and away the better way to go.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org/bloodless_medicine_surgery

https://www.pennmedicine.org/for-patien ... e-medicine


It's interesting that the American armed forces are looking into bloodless medicine for its soldiers.


The JWs who told you it would have been better for your baby to die---their comments are beyond my comprehension. I can't imagine anyone saying such a thing, especially to someone who doesn't know why we believe what we believe. I apologize for their extremely poor choice of words. No one I know would say such a thing. I am truly sorry for anyone putting you through such trauma.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 201 by Hector Barbosa]

And remember that only those under Jehovah's Witness organization will be saved in the coming Armageddon. Unless Of course they are not? In which case the will all certainly be damned to hell for their position.

I guess you don't get much out of peoples' posts. It has been stated more than once by more than one person that we don't believe that ONLY those in our organization will be saved.