Contradictory statements

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Contradictory statements

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

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Contradictory statements

Words attributed to Jesus by Luke and Matthew (whoever they may have been) appear to be contradictory (as well as perhaps irrational -- particularly those cited by "Luke").
Luke 14:26 If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Matthew 22:39 And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets
Love your neighbor " but hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters (and yourself)?

Do unto others (hate them) as you would have them do to you (hate you)?

In psychiatry and psychology, maintaining two or more contradictory statements or positions is viewed as an indication of schizophrenia . . .

Do the statements quoted seem like wise words from a wonderful teacher / leader / preacher?
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Re: Contradictory statements

Post #61

Post by 1213 »

Zzyzx wrote: As may be apparent from my posts, I read, and write (and also speak) English. I use standard definitions as noted in standard-use dictionaries of the English language (available to anyone with access to the Internet)....
Ok, thank you for clarification. It was not very good question from me. Sorry about bothering you with it.

Anyway, I think it is possible to love and hate at the same time. For example, person, can hate someone because he leads other one astray from the truth, but at the same time person can love that someone because after all, he is human being. Disciple of Jesus may hate something, because it leads a way from truth, but at the same time person can love and treat the other well.

In Biblical point of view love is same as caring, because if you love other, you dont do anything wrong to him. And that is possible, even if one doesnt like the other person. And I think that is the reason why Jesus exhorted to love even enemies. Probably person may not like his enemies, but love as shown in the Bible doesnt depend on do you like another person.

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

Jesus said also:
No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You can't serve both God and Mammon. Therefore, I tell you, don't be anxious for your life: what you will eat, or what you will drink; nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Isn't life more than food, and the body more than clothing?
Matt. 6:24-25

I think that also explains the hate family thing. Disciple of Jesus must choose what he follows, his family, or Jesus. It is not possible to follow two masters. But even if you follow Jesus, you can love other people and person should love even his enemies. But the love is not based on that is the matter or person something that you own or something that you like.
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Re: Contradictory statements

Post #62

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 61 by 1213]




[center]
One huge mistake after another[/center]

1213 wrote:
Anyway, I think it is possible to love and hate at the same time.
We can call that mixed emotions.
Sure.

A lot of people get confused by their strong emotions like that.
Crimes of passion testify.

1213 wrote:
Disciple of Jesus may hate something, because it leads a way from truth, but at the same time person can love and treat the other well.
I suggest that if a person does NOT treat another person well.. that other person should call the cops. I seek the truth, too, but I don't have to hate.

1213 wrote:
And I think that is the reason why Jesus exhorted to love even enemies.
It's always great to hear another person's thoughts.
Isn't diversity wonderful?

1213 wrote:
I think that also explains the hate family thing.
In my opinion, that was a HUGE mistake to use the word "hate".
Poetry gone VERY wrong.

Opinions.. whataryagonnado?

1213 wrote:
Disciple of Jesus must choose what he follows, his family, or Jesus.
Yeah, that doesn't make any sense at all.
Another huge mistake.

I love my family, I don't "follow" them.

1213 wrote:
It is not possible to follow two masters.
Our family are our MASTERS now?
I think now, YOU make the mistake.

I love my family ( that makes me a non-Christian ) and they are NOT my master.

1213 wrote:
But even if you follow Jesus, you can love other people
But not your family, apparently.
Leave your wife and kids if you think that will make you a better Christian.

Meh.. I think it would be a HUGE mistake to do so.
Just my thoughts.....

1213 wrote:
and person should love even his enemies.
Yeah, another HUGE mistake.
Sometimes, you just have to kill em. Not exactly what I call love.

It might not be HATE, but it sure aint love, my friend.

1213 wrote:
But the love is not based on that is the matter or person something that you own or something that you like.
That sentence makes no sense.


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Re: Contradictory statements

Post #63

Post by William »

[Replying to post 61 by 1213]

1213 wrote:Anyway, I think it is possible to love and hate at the same time.
Yes. Some people get mixed up about love and hate and think of hate as something opposite love and that people who will hate do things associated with hate, such as crimes of passion.
Jesus isn't said to have instructed his followers to commit crimes against others.
Love and hate are not at all necessarily 'strong emotions'. Jesus taught temperance too, and on occasion let his emotions get the better of him.
1213 wrote:Disciple of Jesus may hate something, because it leads a way from truth, but at the same time person can love and treat the other well.
Often I try to understand another. By understanding them I might not condone what they do, but understanding helps me not to judge them but to love them, even that they are liars.
1213 wrote:And I think that is the reason why Jesus exhorted to love even enemies.

Often people decide to make an enemy of you for all sorts of reasons, and not always truthful ones either.
I think the idea around loving one's enemies is that it helps diffuse situations which could get complicated and also if someone hates you and you respond with love, it isn't so easy to deal with due to the unpredictable, and it may even help them to understand things in a different light.
1213 wrote:I think that also explains the hate family thing.
Due to the serious nature of the mission, being distracted by the mundane or ordinary activities of family and the possibility of some family members talking you out of that mission meant putting the foot down and taking a stand.
Perhaps in those days families tended to work together to survive and prosper and families still operate in this way today, although there is more opportunity for the individual to make their way in life without family.
1213 wrote:Disciple of Jesus must choose what he follows, his family, or Jesus.
This was very specific to the mission and families were not exempt from participating in that mission. The focus of the advise was toward those members of ones family who would do whatever they could to persuade the family member to support the family agenda rather than following Jesus in relation to supporting the mission.

Families play a game they often do not even realize they are playing, and loyalty to family is often to be held up as paramount to anything else. In this way yes, following or serving family interests was seen to be detrimental to the mission.
1213 wrote:It is not possible to follow two masters.
Certainly not in that case. The disciple job saw an end game in which family would be seen as the collective human family rather than individual warring families competing for supremacy over other families and from that position dictating the terms and conditions, be that slavery, or any other form of disparity.
1213 wrote:But even if you follow Jesus, you can love other people
Including your family, yes. It is just that you hold serving the mission as being the priority rather than the dictates of ones family.
1213 wrote:and person should love even his enemies.
Yes. One does not have to place themselves into danger in relation to that. Love is never stupid.
There has been a lot of fighting and killing in the name of love, but are we thus to suppose that it was genuine love? Perhaps it was hate pretending to be love? Perhaps it was loyalty to something less than loving?
Last edited by William on Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Contradictory statements

Post #64

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 63 by William]

[Replying to post 63 by William]
William wrote:
Jesus isn't said to have instructed his followers to commit crimes against others.
Jesus isn't said to have instructed his followers to wear Nike or to play basketball, either.

Some Christians DO.
What's your point?


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Re: Contradictory statements

Post #65

Post by William »

Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 63 by William]

[Replying to post 63 by William]
William wrote:
Jesus isn't said to have instructed his followers to commit crimes against others.


Some Christians DO.
What's your point? Are you suggesting Jesus did instruct his followers to commit crimes against others?

Quote In Context
William wrote: Yes. Some people get mixed up about love and hate and think of hate as something opposite love and that people who will hate do things associated with hate, such as crimes of passion.
Jesus isn't said to have instructed his followers to commit crimes against others.
Love and hate are not at all necessarily 'strong emotions'. Jesus taught temperance too, and on occasion let his emotions get the better of him.

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Re: Contradictory statements

Post #66

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 65 by William]




[center]
Hate: the very mild, friendly emotion[/center]

William wrote:
Are you suggesting Jesus did instruct his followers to commit crimes against others?
He reputedly said that his followers should hate.

I didn't invent that...

But I guess the point of my rather silly basketball remark is that if we take what Jesus DIDN'T say as Gospel.. then we could just go ahead and invent all kinds of things.

I used the very silly example ( reductio ad absurdum ) of Nike gear and playing basketball. Jesus didn't say that we should play, so by your logic, Christians should NOT.

Good Christians, by your reasoning, are not supposed to throw a triple or do a double D.

William wrote:
Love and hate are not at all necessarily 'strong emotions'.
Hate seems pretty strong half court press to this wanna be basketballer.

William wrote:
Jesus taught temperance too, and on occasion let his emotions get the better of him.

It is not my contention that Jesus is portrayed in the Gospels as being consistent.


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Re: Contradictory statements

Post #67

Post by William »

[Replying to post 66 by Blastcat]
[center]
Hate: the very mild, friendly emotion[/center]
Sorry mate. I found nothing in your response which replied to anything I actually said.



8-)

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Post #68

Post by otseng »

[Replying to post 67 by William]

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Re: Contradictory statements

Post #69

Post by 1213 »

[Replying to post 62 by Blastcat]
Blastcat wrote: We can call that mixed emotions.
Or love is not an emotion as I think. I have understood Bible so that love is rather an attitude (or spirit) than an emotion.
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The Filthy Little Liar

Post #70

Post by William »

Re: Apparent contradictory statements
Zzyzx wrote: .
Contradictory statements

Words attributed to Jesus by Luke and Matthew (whoever they may have been) appear to be contradictory (as well as perhaps irrational -- particularly those cited by "Luke").
Luke 14:26 If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Matthew 22:39 And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets
Love your neighbor " but hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters (and yourself)?

Do unto others (hate them) as you would have them do to you (hate you)?

In psychiatry and psychology, maintaining two or more contradictory statements or positions is viewed as an indication of schizophrenia . . .

Do the statements quoted seem like wise words from a wonderful teacher / leader / preacher?
Is is often the case that when words are taken out of context, apparent contradictions can be made to seem to appear in the understanding of the unwary.

When this is done purposefully, it is done so by a Filthy Little Liar.

Often that Filthy Little Liar is portrayed as 'Satan', 'the Devil', 'the Adversary of the Truth' in scripture and the aim of the Filthy Little Liar is to bring doubt into the mind of the individual in relation to the truthfulness of GOD.

"Did GOD say?" "Has GOD said?" "God is lying" "Forget GOD and follow me." and then quoting out of context in order to attempt to misrepresent what GOD has said (re scripture) and there are the accompanying stories to clearly show this is what is happening.

It is a political tactic - politicians often employ such strategy of quoting out of context and then making statements against what has been misrepresented in order to bring disrepute on the integrity of the opponents.
This kind of interaction of course, is acceptable enough in the political arenas of human societies. People actually expect this kind of behavior from their representatives. People essentially encourage Filthy Little Liars to represent them.
It is oft said that religion shouldn't involve itself with politics, but the truth is, politics has always pushed its filthy little lying agenda into religion, which adds to the ability of the Filthy Little Liar to point at GOD and say "See! GOD is a Filthy Big Liar!"

If we look at the story of Jesus being tempted by the Filthy Little Liar, we can see the motivation behind the Filthy Little Liar's agenda when using scripture to try and create a contradiction where no contraction exists, as well as how Jesus deals with the Filthy Little Liar by using scripture to counter the lies the Filthy Little Liar is attempting to use to make a wedge of doubt between GOD the Father and Jesus.

Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Filthy Little Liar.
He fasted forty days and forty nights and naturally enough, afterward Jesus was hungry.
Now when the Filthy Little Liar came to Jesus, the Filthy Little Liar said, If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.

The Filthy Little Liar was trying to manipulate Jesus to use his knowledge on how to change the physical properties of the stones into bread.
There seems no reason at this point that the fast should not be broken, or that Jesus should not use his knowledge to feed his hunger, other than to have his faith tested by the Filthy Little Liar under extreme physical and mental weakness caused by the hunger.

Did the Filthy Little Liar not know that Jesus was the Father GODs son and had those abilities?
Clearly he did. But his aim was to create doubt in Jesus' psyche about the Father in order to manipulate Jesus into going in a certain direction in his thinking so that the Filthy Little Liar could dictate the manner in which events unfolded - this is called 'baiting'.
The Filthy Little Liar wanted Jesus to become a a Filthy Little Liar too.

But instead of taking the bait, Jesus told the Filthy Little Liar that It is written, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

In this way, Jesus was creating his own path, contrary to the one which the Filthy Little Liar wanted Jesus to take. Jesus did not need to prove to the Filthy Little Liar that he was the Fathers son.

Then the Filthy Little Liar took Jesus up into the holy city, and set Jesus on the pinnacle of the temple.

Then the Filthy Little Liar tried to get Jesus to test the Father by saying, If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:

"He shall give His angels charge over you.

and,

"In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone."

The Filthy Little Liar was using scripture to once again attempt to find any self doubt Jesus might have in relation to his mission and self identification as 'the Fathers Son'.

In doing so the Filthy Little Liar was speaking a lie which was "I don't believe that you are who you say you are, so prove it! You have scripture to back your actions up. Attempt suicide and GOD will save you IF you are indeed who you say you are."

Jesus used scripture appropriately to contradict the Filthy Little Liar's inappropriate use of scripture. The Filthy Little Liar was using scripture out of context in order to show that it could be done, and in doing so, what damage can result from that. The Filthy Little Liar was still attempting to find self doubt in Jesus.

Jesus showed that it could not be done, at least not without becoming a Filthy Little Liar himself. Jesus was not a Filthy Little Liar.

In using scripture appropriately (truthfully) Jesus replied to the Filthy Little LiarIt is written again, "You shall not tempt the Lord your God." - showing that such a diabolical tactic only showed that the agenda of a Filthy Little Liar, is only ever to tell Filthy Little Lies.

Then the Filthy Little Liar took Jesus up to an even higher perspective, and showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their riches and power, which the Filthy Little Liar owned and operated.
The Filthy Little Liar offered to give all these kingdoms over to Jesus IF Jesus would simple become a Filthy Little Liar by falling down and worshiping the Filthy Little Liar as if the Filthy Little Liar was a GOD worthy of such a thing.

Jesus placed the Filthy Little Liar on 'ignore' by using a simple one line rebuke;
Away with you, Filthy Little Liar! For it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve."

At that The Filthy Little Liar was thus cast out of the situation and Jesus was tended to by the Truthful Servants of The Father GOD.

For those seeking Truth, it pays to make sure all things are kept in context because Filthy Little Liars can proclaim contradictions through such devise as quoting out of context as part of their arsenal against Truth, and being aware of this will assist the seeker of Truth along the path of righteousness.

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