JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 55 by onewithhim]

I am just pointing out that a baby born to a human and created by a god is a god.

This is why the original Christian church came up with the trinity to overcome two gods.

Again, JWs have two gods since Jesus would be considered demigod by standard definitions. Of course like a lot of religious people the JWs choose to makeup their own definitions to match their religion.

Do the JWs ever pray to Jesus.

Jesus would NOT be considered a "demi-god" by truthful definitions. The world run by the Devil has come up with quite a few definitions that are not scripturally sound. As JW above stated, Jesus could be considered "a god" because he was an influential, powerful individual. Human judges were called "gods" in the scriptures, and angels also were referred to as "gods." The apostle Paul said that some people's gods were their 'bellies,' meaning that consuming food was the most important thing for them.

We have explained innumerable times that the ONLY God we worship is the Father, Jehovah, whom Jesus said he also worshiped (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12).

50 Biblical Proofs That Jesus is God
Jesus is God the Son. He is the eternal, all-powerful, all-loving, self-existent Creator God.

see http://www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstro ... sus-is-god

Tell me what the definition of demigod was before the devil changed it?

Sorry, your "50 proofs" don't hold water, and we have explained why ad nauseum. You don't pay ANY attention to what we post, so why do you think you are refuting us? You can NEVER show anyone where it says "God the Son" in the Bible. It is not there! You cannot show anywhere in the Bible that says that Jesus is "self-existent," either. And he is "all-powerful" relatively speaking. He was GIVEN "all power" by his Father, so he could never be more powerful or even AS powerful as the Father. An all-powerful God doesn't need to be GIVEN power! Clearly Jesus is not God.

YOU have changed meanings, therefore you must be on good terms with Beelzebub.

[Donray]

[Replying to post 61 by onewithhim]

You do realize that 99% of Christians don't believe like you do and have more religious experts on their side?

Why don't you just point out where each of the 50 points are dead wrong?

I understand that you must believe what you were taught by our church. But the JWs are a new religion and was started by a person that was not even a religion expert.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 61 by onewithhim]

You do realize that 99% of Christians don't believe like you do and have more religious experts on their side?

Why don't you just point out where each of the 50 points are dead wrong?

I understand that you must believe what you were taught by our church. But the JWs are a new religion and was started by a person that was not even a religion expert.

If you want to play that game, giving us 50 reasons "Jesus is God", how about you refute these 100 reasons Jesus is not God?

http://progressive.church/100-reasons-jesus-is-not-god/

It took the Church roughly 300 years to finally decide that Jesus was "God".

If it were a clear and undisputed fact, shouldn't the doctrine of Jesus Divinity have been clear right off the bat?

JW may be a relatively new religion, but many of their beliefs are ancient. Especially their understanding of the nature of Jesus in relation to God.

They are very "Arian".

[Donray]

[Replying to post 63 by Elijah John]

You don't know your religious history.

Paul latter written about 60 AD said that Jesus existed and created the universe. Paul can be considered the creator of the Christin Church.

And yes there were groups that thought there were two gods the god of the OT and the god of the NT.

What about the group that thinks you must ware magic underwear and they can prove it and all others will go to hell?

What about the cult that thinks you must handle snakes since the bible says so. They can prove they are right.

How about the majority of Christians that are symbolic cannibals and eat flesh and drink the blood of Christ? Are all wrong?

What about the religions that teach the blacks are inferior? They use the bible to prove it.

What about gays going hell and the stupid people use the bible to prove it?

Again, you belong to small cult that is even banned in some countries and has been accused of a child abuse in this country. Allowing children to die when medical care could have saved them.

I personally think that beliefs in the supernatural is more for the undereducated and mentally ill.

Why don't you discuss your beliefs with a priest and get him to convert.

You do know that the Vatican has the best translations of the bible?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 63 by Elijah John]

You don't know your religious history.

Paul latter written about 60 AD said that Jesus existed and created the universe. Paul can be considered the creator of the Christin Church.

And yes there were groups that thought there were two gods the god of the OT and the god of the NT.

What about the group that thinks you must ware magic underwear and they can prove it and all others will go to hell?

What about the cult that thinks you must handle snakes since the bible says so. They can prove they are right.

How about the majority of Christians that are symbolic cannibals and eat flesh and drink the blood of Christ? Are all wrong?

What about the religions that teach the blacks are inferior? They use the bible to prove it.

What about gays going hell and the stupid people use the bible to prove it?

Again, you belong to small cult that is even banned in some countries and has been accused of a child abuse in this country. Allowing children to die when medical care could have saved them.

I personally think that beliefs in the supernatural is more for the undereducated and mentally ill.

Why don't you discuss your beliefs with a priest and get him to convert.

You do know that the Vatican has the best translations of the bible?

Your post is all over the place. Let us focus on the 50 reasons that "Jesus is God" vs. the 100 reasons that he is not God.

By the way, I do not belong to any "cult". I do, however, consider Jehovah's Witnesses allies in our mutual proclamation that the Father alone is God, and that His name is YHVH.

And they are no more a "cult" than the early Christians were a "cult".

[Donray]

The term cult usually refers to a social group defined by its religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object or goal.

JWs are a cult by definition. So are the Baptists. I guess I am in a atheist cult. Why do want to change the definition of cult?

Also, both sides of Jesus and the trinity are right by there own logic. But if we define right as the vast majority opinion then the trinity is what is right.

Do you believe in democracy where the majority determine what is right?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 66 by Donray]

Majority opinion is not how "right" is defined. But I will grant you, the majority has endorsed the Trinity. Doesn't make it real, nor does it make it right.

[Donray]

[Replying to post 66 by Donray]

Majority opinion is not how "right" is defined. But I will grant you, the majority has endorsed the Trinity. Doesn't make it real, nor does it make it right.

You did not respond to my about democracy were the majority define what is right.

Please give a good example where the majority does not determine what is right. For example a jury determine what is a right verdict. You might disagree with a majority, but that does not make you right.

99% of Christians believe the trinity is correct. They have thousands of years of facts to back up this idea. The Vatican most likely has the best translations of the bible and a vast number of scholars.

But lets discuss serval points starting with:

John 5:23: “… so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.� If Jesus is not fully God, then His words in verse 23 are nothing short of blasphemy! What created being could say that we should honor him just as we honor the Father? Clearly, Jesus is claiming to be God.

[marco]

Sorry, your "50 proofs" don't hold water, and we have explained why ad nauseum. You don't pay ANY attention to what we post, so why do you think you are refuting us? ......................................

YOU have changed meanings, therefore you must be on good terms with Beelzebub.

Moderator Comment


It may be exasperating to have to explain things ad nauseam, onewithhim, but it is rather uncivil to suggest someone is in league with the devil. However, it was probably said in humour and not with any ill intent.

Please review the Rules.


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[marco]

You don't know your religious history.


Again, you belong to small cult that is even banned in some countries and has been accused of a child abuse in this country. Allowing children to die when medical care could have saved them.

I personally think that beliefs in the supernatural is more for the undereducated and mentally ill.

Why don't you discuss your beliefs with a priest and get him to convert.

Moderator Warning



This is not discussion but an attack. You are not entitled to make personal comments on another poster. Stick to discussing the OP.



Please review our Rules.

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Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.