Jehovah's Witnesses and 1914

[Justin108]

They now insist that Jesus did return but he is invisible.

If so, how would they know he has returned?

If you are refering to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES we believe know because of the signs Jesus provided to identify the time (see Mat 24, Lk 21, Mk 14) and we believe it started in 1914 because of our interpretation of bible chronology (see link below).

Learn more
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/


JW

1. What exactly happened in 1914 that points to Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 14?

2. Was 1914 unique in this regard? For example, Luke 21 mentions "wars and uprisings". In what way is 1914 unique in terms of wars and uprisings?

3. According to (my understanding of) Jehovah's Witnesses' claims, Jesus' rule from 1914 is hidden and behind the scenes. His rule is invisible to most of us. Did Jehovah's Witnesses predict that Jesus' rule would be behind the scenes from the start? Or did they initially believe that Jesus' rule will be clearly apparent to everyone, and only after 1914 when no Jesus was to be found did they change their conclusion to "well Jesus must be doing it in heaven where no one can see"?

4. Do you consider the possibility that your interpretation might be wrong and that Jesus did not return in 1914? Or do you believe that it is an indisputable fact that Jesus returned in 1914?

[otseng]

This seems to be protocol for Jehovah's Witnesses. JW regularly outright ignores the majority of my rebuttals.

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[polonius]

Justin108 wrote:


JehovahsWitness wrote:


If you are refering to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES we believe know because of the signs Jesus provided to identify the time (see Mat 24, Lk 21, Mk 14 13)

JW

1. What exactly happened in 1914 that points to Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 14?



If you read what I said we (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe that the scriptures provide information as to a "sign" that identify "the time" or the period (often refered to as "the last days") meaning a period of time that leads directly to the great tribulation (or the end of the system of things).

RESPONSE: Let’s take a look:

Matthew 24, 32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he[g] is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Luke 21 25 “There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on the earth distress among nations confused by the roaring of the sea and the waves. 26 People will faint from fear and foreboding of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in a cloud’ with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to take place, stand up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.�

and Mark 14? 61 But he was silent and did not answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah,[j] the Son of the Blessed One?� 62 Jesus said, “I am; and‘you will see the Son of Man
seated at the right hand of the Power,’
and ‘coming with the clouds of heaven.’�

Question: Where do you see any mention of Jesus returning (invisibly) in 1914?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 36 by JehovahsWitness]

There are a lot more kings. Lets not forget the 144,000 other kings as well. Rev 5:10. But it even says they are 'made to be a kingdom and priests to our God'. As you said JW they are kings but they all answer to Jehovah. Everyone will.

Indeed, even King David and other kings of Israel represented Jehovah as his chosen kings; Jehovah sees fit to delegate responsibilities to his subjects; as did Jesus himself.

JW

[For_The_Kingdom]

If you are refering to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES we believe know because of the signs Jesus provided to identify the time (see Mat 24, Lk 21, Mk [strike]14[/strike] 13)

JW

1. What exactly happened in 1914 that points to Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 14?

If you read what I said we (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe that the scriptures provide information as to a "sign" that identify "the time" or the period (often refered to as "the last days") meaning a period of time that leads directly to the great tribulation (or the end of the system of things).

The date 1914 cannot in our opinion, specifically be pinpointed from this "composite sign".

as I said above

"we believe [Christ's rule] started in 1914 because of our interpretation of bible chronology (see link below).

Learn more
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... year-bible... "

Naw bruh, the failed prophecy of 1914 was exactly that, a FAILED prophecy. To make matters worse, that was just one of MANY failed prophecies which stemmed from the governing body of the Watch Tower & Tract Society. The most recent one was the failed 1975 prophecy, and the significant part about that one is the fact that there are JW's alive now who remembers it.

Talk to any ex-Witness who was born around <--1960, and they can testify the falsehoods coming from the governing body about the end of times which would begin in 1975.

It is/was well-documented, and there are people alive today that can testify to this falsehood. There is no reason for non-JW's to lie or deceive people about it, because all of the false teachings of the kind comes right out of Watch Tower literature.

So there is no wiggle-room out of it, as much as JW apologists would like there to be.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 44 by For_The_Kingdom]

I don't have to talk to a Witness born in the 60's because I am one. Thanking you kindly for your advice nonetheless.

Regards,

JW

[For_The_Kingdom]

[Replying to post 44 by For_The_Kingdom]

I don't have to talk to a Witness born in the 60's because I am one. Thanking you kindly for your advice nonetheless.

Regards,

JW

If you are one, then you should remember and acknowledge the false prophecy (1975) which came straight from the mind and lips of the governing body of the WTS...and from there it went to the pages of Watch Tower literature.

There is no amount of JW apologetics that you can use which will negate and/or undercut this fact.

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 44 by For_The_Kingdom]

I don't have to talk to a Witness born in the 60's because I am one. Thanking you kindly for your advice nonetheless.

Regards,

JW

Talk to any ex-Witness who was born around <--1960

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 47 by Justin108]

What makes you think I haven't spoken to ex-witnesses on this topic? I am fully aware of the issues related to 1914, past and present (many of which I have dealt with in this thread), I lived through the period and have had countless in depth discussions with many dozens of witnesses and ex-witnesses on the subject. I have read most if not all the first source material on this topic as well as related university papers that deal with it.

Was there anything else you feel inclined to add?

JW

[Justin108]

What makes you think I haven't spoken to ex-witnesses on this topic?

If that's the case, the proper response would have been "I've spoken to an ex-witness before" rather than "I don't have to talk to a Witness born in the 60's because I am one" since the latter response is irrelevant to the matter of ex witnesses.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 49 by Justin108]

Your input had been duly noted. Was there anything else?