Mormonism is NOT Chistian

[doctrinematters]

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 1 by doctrinematters]

You are suggesting that, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", is not Christian? Of course they are Christian.

They follow the stories about a dude given the name of Jesus. Sure, they add some stuff to your book in the same way you added stuff to the Jew's book. They simply added stuff more recently than you did.

You are near sighted...what they seem to have added is that all of orthodox Christianity is lies...not a "simple" addition at all.

Oh, it's not all lies. mainstream Christianity has a LOT of truth in it. Just not as much as we do.

.........and yes, of course I believe that. If I didn't, I'd go find a belief system that I DID think had more truth than anybody else, join it...

And I'd still be claiming that my belief system, whatever it was, had more truth than anybody else.

Any other attitude is called, er....hypocrisy.

[Bust Nak]

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I think a topic on whether something counts as Christian or not, is better served here.


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[historia]

You are suggesting that, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", is not Christian? Of course they are Christian.

Just because a religious group calls themselves something doesn't necessarily mean we should classify them that way.

Consider, for example, Messianic Jews. They are Christians who call themselves Jews. Does that mean we should classify their beliefs as Judaism?

They follow the stories about a dude given the name of Jesus. Sure, they add some stuff to your book in the same way you added stuff to the Jew's book. They simply added stuff more recently than you did.

I'm not sure this argument actually establishes your claim. In fact, if anything, it would seem to make the opposite point.

Follow the logic here: As you put it, Christians "added stuff to the Jew's book." That's a major reason why we no longer consider them to be Jews. Using that same logic, if the Mormons have "added stuff" to the Christian's book, shouldn't that mean they should no longer be considered Christians?

Compare this to Muslims who also "follow the stories about a dude given the name of Jesus" and have "added stuff" to the Bible. We don't consider them Christians. Nor also the Bahai who have added even more stuff.

Now, none of that is to argue that we shouldn't ultimately conclude Mormons are Christians. But it would seem that these two arguments don't provide a good argument to that effect.

[dianaiad]

You are suggesting that, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", is not Christian? Of course they are Christian.

Just because a religious group calls themselves something doesn't necessarily mean we should classify them that way.

Consider, for example, Messianic Jews. They are Christians who call themselves Jews. Does that mean we should classify their beliefs as Judaism?

Except of course that being a Jew is about more than one's religious beliefs. It's also about heritage, culture and, let's face it, genetics. I know atheistic Jews, and Jews who are Buddhists. Once one compares orthodox Jewish beliefs and some of the more 'reformed' of the reformed Jewish beliefs, one can honestly question whether those beliefs resemble each other a whole lot.

As well, please remember that JESUS Himself was a Jew, and preached only to Jews. He didn't see that conversion to His POV made them any less Jewish....and neither did Peter, Paul or any of the other apostles of the day. The idea, when the teachings of Jesus were expanded to include non-Jews, that those others would be included in the Jewish core of the beliefs, not that they would be separate, never mind what eventually happened.

So...bad example at the very least.

They follow the stories about a dude given the name of Jesus. Sure, they add some stuff to your book in the same way you added stuff to the Jew's book. They simply added stuff more recently than you did.

I'm not sure this argument actually establishes your claim. In fact, if anything, it would seem to make the opposite point.

Follow the logic here: As you put it, Christians "added stuff to the Jew's book." That's a major reason why we no longer consider them to be Jews. Using that same logic, if the Mormons have "added stuff" to the Christian's book, shouldn't that mean they should no longer be considered Christians?

See the above point.

The thing is, most Christians are not Jews. That does not, however, mean that a Jew who comes to believe in Jesus ceases to be a Jew. He changes belief systems, but not his heritage, his culture or his genetics. Trust me on this; the Jew who converts to Christianity is just as much in danger of passing on Tay Sachs as he was before his baptism. His family remains his family. His traditions...given that they are the traditions Jesus held to...remain his traditions. The only thing HE changes is the idea of who the Messiah is/was.

Compare this to Muslims who also "follow the stories about a dude given the name of Jesus" and have "added stuff" to the Bible. We don't consider them Christians. Nor also the Bahai who have added even more stuff.

Now, none of that is to argue that we shouldn't ultimately conclude Mormons are Christians. But it would seem that these two arguments don't provide a good argument to that effect.

Wait. What? If you are referring to your own arguments, they don't provide a good argument to the point you are attempting to make. Consider: for four hundred years after Christ, people were using all manner of different documents as 'scripture,' before a council up and decided which books would be included in the NT....and even then it wasn't settled. JEWS didn't settle their set of scriptures until well after Christ, either. So....hmnn.

No, 'added scripture" doesn't disqualify anybody any more than taking scripture AWAY would. I mean, if it did, both Catholics and Protestants would have problems here.

[historia]

Except of course that being a Jew is about more than one's religious beliefs. It's also about heritage, culture and, let's face it, genetics.

The thing is, most Christians are not Jews. That does not, however, mean that a Jew who comes to believe in Jesus ceases to be a Jew.

I'm afraid you missed the point. Perhaps I wasn't clear.

There are, of course, people who are Jews by ethnicity. That's not what I'm talking about.

Rather, I'm talking about a religious movement known as Messianic Judaism. It is open to anyone, not just those who are ethnically Jewish. It's theological beliefs are clearly and obviously Christian. And yet adherents of this movement refer to it as Messianic Judaism. Should would therefore classify it as being part of Judaism? Or is it really part of Christianity?

No, 'added scripture" doesn't disqualify anybody any more than taking scripture AWAY would.

I'm not sure what you mean by "disqualify" here.

Tcg argued that "following the stories about a dude given the name of Jesus" is enough to classify a religious movement as Christian. But clearly that is not sufficient, since Muslims, Bahai, and even some New Age movements would meet that definition, and yet we don't consider them Christian.

[dianaiad]

.............

Tcg argued that "following the stories about a dude given the name of Jesus" is enough to classify a religious movement as Christian. But clearly that is not sufficient, since Muslims, Bahai, and even some New Age movements would meet that definition, and yet we don't consider them Christian.

That's mostly because they don't consider themselves Christian. Indeed, I think that the only two 'qualifications' one needs to be a Christian are first, that one puts the teachings of Jesus Christ (as one believes them to be) at the center of one's belief system, and second, that one claims to be a Christian.

Muslims 'follow' Jesus in that they put Him in the position as a very important prophet; almost equal to, if not equal to, Mohammad...but His teachings are not at the center of their religion, nor do they claim to be Christians. I do believe that something similar goes for the Bahai (though I'm not as familiar with their beliefs as I, perhaps, should be).

Personally, if someone claims to be a Christian, or belong to a Christian belief system, I'm not going to argue with him. I mean, really; what good would it do? There is no argument I could make that would convince someone who believes that s/he is a Christian that s/he is not. It's not only a waste of time, it gets people's backs up.

it's also irrelevant. "Christian," after all, is a classification of belief, not a declaration of salvation.

[The Nice Centurion]

I believe it is against forum rules to state a christian denomination as non-christian.
Also since mormons split off from the very beginning until today into uncountable sects, you despise not one, but a lot of christian denominations.

[The Nice Centurion]

Mormons started out by classifying the non mormon sects as not Christian.
Catholicism is the great false church, while other denominations are not mentioned in their doctrine. But context hints at the statement that they all are not christian, according to mormonism.

Of course today the greatest mormon sect, LDS, would do anything to get accepted into mainstream christianity. So they dont dare to say that any longer.

So who are "christians" to put the finger at mormons ?

Despicable !