Evangelist is trying to raise 54 million dollars

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William
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Post #11

Post by William »

[Replying to post 4 by For_The_Kingdom]
This is just Elijah John creating another semi-sensationalized thread, which has undoubtedly been the trend with him lately. SMH.
Or - it could be that EJ asks the hard questions that requires honest thought and response.

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Re: Evangelist is trying to raise 54 million dollars

Post #12

Post by William »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I think that congregations who flock to such individuals do so because they are attracted to types of preachers which they themselves would behave like, if indeed they were in the same position.
This also applies to the type of GOD idea people flock to. If the GOD is sitting on a throne, center of attention and object of worship, this is a true reflection of the inner attitude of the individuals psyche at work and they are drawn to this preference based upon their true intentions occulted internally but expressed externally.

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Post #13

Post by dianaiad »

For_The_Kingdom wrote:
Overcomer wrote: My shortest answer ever on this forum -- a resounding no to all those questions.
This is just Elijah John creating another semi-sensationalized thread, which has undoubtedly been the trend with him lately. SMH.
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Re: Evangelist is trying to raise 54 million dollars

Post #14

Post by imhereforyou »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
Does this kind of thing honor God? / Does it honor the Gospel? / Does it honor Christianity?
I suppose it depends on how one defines 'honor'. In a way, it could show that they're successful and if that equates to honor, then there ya' go?
Would you donate money to this preacher if you knew it was going to uses like this?
I'd be hard pressed to donate money to any Christian organization or leader.
Is this what Fundamentalist, Evangelical Christianity has come to? Making preachers rich?
Christianity has made many people money/influence/power/control throughout history - no need to specify any one group unless there's an underlying motive to do so.....
Would this kind of behavior in the name of Jesus, make Jesus happy?
No one can say with absolute certainty, but if you're happy, and you can make others happy (while remaining a Christian) in the name of Jesus, I suspect he wouldn't be cross about it.

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Post #15

Post by Jagella »

[Replying to post 10 by bjs]
I agree with FTK that this is little more than a sensationalized thread.
You can call it what you want, but I think it's important to get the facts out on religious con artistry.
This is only second time in my life that I have heard a report about a pastor becoming wealthy off donations. It is very uncommon. If we drop that extreme anecdotes and look at the real numbers, despite most pastors having an advanced degree they still earn less than the average American.
I used to subscribe to the Freedom From Religion Foundation's Freethought Today newspaper. In it was a column called "Black-Collar Crime" in which was reported many cases of preachers committing various crimes most of them of a sexual nature.

In the 1980s there was a major TV evangelist scandal involving Jim and Tammy Bakker which was later followed by Jimmy Swaggart and Oral Roberts. These scandals involved money, sex, pornography, and rape.

More recently the Catholic Church's cover-up of pedophile priests has hit the news.

So where have you been?
The average pastor earns $47,000 a year.
The amount of money made scamming people doesn't mean it still isn't a scam.

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Post #16

Post by Elijah John »

bjs wrote: I agree with FTK that this is little more than a sensationalized thread.

This is only second time in my life that I have heard a report about a pastor becoming wealthy off donations. It is very uncommon. If we drop that extreme anecdotes and look at the real numbers, despite most pastors having an advanced degree they still earn less than the average American.

The average pastor earns $47,000 a year.
https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Pastor/Salary

The average income across all jobs in the US is $52,000.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/av ... ommon-jobs

The handful of pastors who have become rich have done so almost exclusively by authoring books.
So you're not familiar with some of the wealthy TBN Evangelical preachers? True, they are not the average, but they are very high profile.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Evangelist is trying to raise 54 million dollars

Post #17

Post by Elijah John »

William wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I think that congregations who flock to such individuals do so because they are attracted to types of preachers which they themselves would behave like, if indeed they were in the same position.
This also applies to the type of GOD idea people flock to. If the GOD is sitting on a throne, center of attention and object of worship, this is a true reflection of the inner attitude of the individuals psyche at work and they are drawn to this preference based upon their true intentions occulted internally but expressed externally.
I think you may be onto something on the first count, especially if that sort of monetary appeal by those preachers does not make the follower in question cringe.

Regarding the God idea? I don't agree. Not all, or even most who worship God desire to be worshipped themselves.

Also, by contrast to the "prosperity preachers" in question, don't forget it is not only non-Christian religious traditions that teach their adherants to embrace sinplicity and humility; Roman Catholic priests take vows of poverty, nuns help the poor, and many large Christian denominations have their own monastic traditions.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Evangelist is trying to raise 54 million dollars

Post #18

Post by William »

[Replying to post 17 by Elijah John]
Regarding the God idea? I don't agree. Not all, or even most who worship God desire to be worshipped themselves.
I think I have human psychology on my side here. You don't really give any sure reason as to why you don't agree with my observations.

Indeed, some months back in arguing with member Jehovah's Witness, she claimed that the image of GOD on a throne (which was one of the many images she posts on this site, from that religious organisation) was a reasonable way in which to think of GOD, siting various human institutions which do this in relation to hierarchy.

What seems more reasonable? That humans created this idea of GOD and placed it on a throne to be worshiped, or that an actual being exists, sits on a throne, face occulted by light, surrounded by winged beings and having songs of praise constantly sung to [him] (talk about pandering!) all the while proclaiming to be GOD?

Seems to me that it is clearly humans who demand images in order to worship those images, and this is no exception to the rule.

Also seems clear to me that IF there is a creator GOD, who created this universe, IT would not be interested in such vainglorious activity. Also to note, it is a known thing about human behavior that good things are done for the sake of been seen to be doing them, but this in itself does not signify that the one doing them is actually good, or doing good works for the sake of doing good works. I think this is even something which biblical writ references as empty and vain, so your argument there doesn't help. People who have an image of GOD who sits on a throne which they worship and do good things for others, does not mean what they are doing is actually good.

Especially if what they do encourages others to worship the same image of a GOD as they do.

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Post #19

Post by Peds nurse »

Hey people!

I am pretty sure that the only one that is being honored, is the preacher. We can make an impact in our world without jets. I am wondering and hoping that this will have an ill effect on his career.

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Post #20

Post by bjs »

Elijah John wrote: So you're not familiar with some of the wealthy TBN Evangelical preachers? True, they are not the average, but they are very high profile.
I admit that I am not familiar with TBN preachers in general. However, focusing on high profile but uncommon examples is a textbook definition of sensationalism.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo

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