Judas Iscariot EVIL or HOLY !!?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Yusef
Banned
Banned
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: His Earth
Contact:

Judas Iscariot EVIL or HOLY !!?

Post #1

Post by Yusef »

[b wrote:Qur'an[/b]]
4:157 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Hadith of Shi'a/Islam
The fifth of the 12 Imams of Shi'a, Al-Baghir[pbuh] said: "at the time of crucify, the Prophet[pbuh] compiled his disciples and asked them:
- Who is ready to be look like me and Pharisees crucify him instead of me, and he will be side by side me in the Paradise!?
- One Youth among them replied: Me!
- You are the same!

Then continued
- One among you from now until morning 12times denies me
- one other asked: Am I the same!!?
- Do you think that in your soul!!!?? You are the same

Then continued
"After tonight, so many of you will be doubtful about me,
Also you will be divided to 3 branches
Two are in hell fire because of blasphemy about God,
And one who follow Sham'un Petrus, those are my real followers
Then the Prophet[pbuh] consigned The Wisdom and The Science to the Simon Peter
Then the disciples were witnessed that he was ascending up
"


Well,
Who were these those two persons!!?
Was one of them the same Judas Iscariot!?
Evil or Holy!?

again The Connection
ref: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 469#926469

Well,
An other link/connection/keywords of crossword:
What if one doubts about Jesus[pbuh]!!? : Study :
I quoted here:
viewtopic.php?p=946271#946271
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

User avatar
Yusef
Banned
Banned
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: His Earth
Contact:

An Angel Entered into Judas Iscariot Not Satan!

Post #2

Post by Yusef »

Yusef wrote: [qoute=Qur'an]
4:157 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Hadith of Shi'a/Islam
The fifth of the 12 Imams of Shi'a, Al-Baghir[pbuh] said: "at the time of crucify, the Prophet[pbuh] compiled his disciples and asked them:
- Who is ready to be look like me and Pharisees crucify him instead of me, and he will be side by side me in the Paradise!?
- One Youth among them replied: Me!
- You are the same!

Then continued
- One among you from now until morning 12times denies me
- one other asked: Am I the same!!?
- Do you think that in your soul!!!?? You are the same

Then continued
"After tonight, so many of you will be doubtful about me,
Also you will be divided to 3 branches
Two are in hell fire because of blasphemy about God,
And one who follow Sham'un Petrus, those are my real followers
Then the Prophet[pbuh] consigned The Wisdom and The Science to the Simon Peter
Then the disciples were witnessed that he was ascending up
"


Well,
Who were these those two persons!!?
Was one of them the same Judas Iscariot!?
Evil or Holy!?

again The Connection
ref: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 469#926469

Well,
An other link/connection/keywords of crossword:
What if one doubts about Jesus[pbuh]!!? : Study :
I quoted here:
viewtopic.php?p=946271#946271
WAIT..! WAIT...! WAIT....!
John 13
26 Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.� So when he had dipped the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas son of Simon Iscariot.
27 After he received the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “Do quickly what you are going to do.�
28 Now no one at the table knew why he said this to him

Well,
We have 2 radio checks here!
â—‹ 1- Jesus is himself a satan that his piece of bread makes one satanic!!
[Na'udhu B Allah, May God Forgive me]!!
â—� 2- It was The Angel that entered into Judas Iscariot instead of Satan,[mistake from the writer] and should made him look like Prophet Jesus[pbuh] that he said: "Do quickly what you are going to do"!!


Therefore we could fill an important Row of the Riddle/Puzzle about one Youth, of course Holy Youth, that was the same Judas Iscariot[pbuh]
The Riddle/Crossword: http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 469#926469
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 7667
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: Judas Iscariot EVIL or HOLY !!?

Post #3

Post by 1213 »

Yusef wrote: Evil or Holy!?
In Bible Judas betrays Jesus for money. I think that is quite evil thing and therefore I don’t see how he could be held as holy.

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12314
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: An Angel Entered into Judas Iscariot Not Satan!

Post #4

Post by marco »

Yusef wrote:

27 After he received the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “Do quickly what you are going to do.�

We have 2 radio checks here!


â—‹ 1- Jesus is himself a satan that his piece of bread makes one satanic!!
[Na'udhu B Allah, May God Forgive me]!!
â—� 2- It was The Angel that entered into Judas Iscariot instead of Satan,[mistake from the writer] and should made him look like Prophet Jesus[pbuh] that he said: "Do quickly what you are going to do"!!

It is amusing to see how one can turn a story to suit a specific interpretation.


The sentence "After he received the piece of bread, Satan entered into him" contains a temporal clause. You are taking it as "BECAUSE he received...." When he got the bread, he revealed himself as a traitor or he showed his evil side. The meaning you place is not warranted by what is written.

In any event the suggestion that God substituted another human being in order to deceive Jews and Roman executioners, appears to be silly.

User avatar
Yusef
Banned
Banned
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: His Earth
Contact:

The disciples did Taqiyah

Post #5

Post by Yusef »

marco wrote:
Yusef wrote:

27 After he received the piece of bread, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “Do quickly what you are going to do.�

We have 2 radio checks here!


â—‹ 1- Jesus is himself a satan that his piece of bread makes one satanic!!
[Na'udhu B Allah, May God Forgive me]!!
â—� 2- It was The Angel that entered into Judas Iscariot instead of Satan,[mistake from the writer] and should made him look like Prophet Jesus[pbuh] that he said: "Do quickly what you are going to do"!!

It is amusing to see how one can turn a story to suit a specific interpretation.


The sentence "After he received the piece of bread, Satan entered into him" contains a temporal clause. You are taking it as "BECAUSE he received...." When he got the bread, he revealed himself as a traitor or he showed his evil side. The meaning you place is not warranted by what is written.

In any event the suggestion that God substituted another human being in order to deceive Jews and Roman executioners, appears to be silly.
It's the same "Taqiya" we Shi'as believe!
Means all of them including 12 disciples and Jesus were aware what did doing but hide that from others!
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

User avatar
Yusef
Banned
Banned
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: His Earth
Contact:

Re: Judas Iscariot EVIL or HOLY !!?

Post #6

Post by Yusef »

1213 wrote:
Yusef wrote: Evil or Holy!?
In Bible Judas betrays Jesus for money. I think that is quite evil thing and therefore I don’t see how he could be held as holy.
first of all,
Your name remembers us to the special 313 helpers of team of The Saviour!
Plus your face and dress are so shine that your face isn't appeared! O:)

Two,
I did mistake here again,
Where!?
Here:
Yusef wrote:Then continued
- One among you from now until morning 12times denies me
- one other asked: Am I the same!!?
- Do you think that in your soul!!!?? You are the same
take a while i shouldn't show Jesus's emotional Angry!
Because I read the last chapters of the 4 Gospels and understood it's the same Simon Peter and his denying wasn't mean that he was been unbeliever about Jesus[pbuh]!
And it was a simple denying for just "Taqiyah"!

I was decided copy paste here that Hadith originaly in Arabic, but i searched and didn't find that in the internet
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12314
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: The disciples did Taqiyah

Post #7

Post by marco »

Yusef wrote:
It's the same "Taqiya" we Shi'as believe!
Means all of them including 12 disciples and Jesus were aware what did doing but hide that from others!

I understand the issue of lying to achieve a purpose. Because people "believe"it, does not make it true or even credible. God is painted here as a trickster, doing what rogues might do, and from this we can deduce that everything based on such ideas is false. It is clearly a rather simplistic theology aimed at demonising Jews.

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12314
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Judas Iscariot EVIL or HOLY !!?

Post #8

Post by marco »

Yusef wrote:
And it was a simple denying for just "Taqiyah"!
You do know that martyrs accepted death rather than deny their faith. Taqiyya seems to be an excuse for taking the easy way out. We can understand why Peter denied and why he was afraid - but let's not make a virtue of it.

If God were on one's side, Taqiyya would never be necessary.

dio9
Under Probation
Posts: 2275
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:01 pm

Re: Judas Iscariot EVIL or HOLY !!?

Post #9

Post by dio9 »

[Replying to post 1 by Yusef]

have you been reading the gospel of Judas? in that it is said Judas was the only one who truly understand Jesus' mission. However It only satirizes the belief Jesus was sent to die as a sacrifice. Like Judas was the most beloved disciple or something.

User avatar
Yusef
Banned
Banned
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: His Earth
Contact:

Quote bit by bit even a letter be the same

Post #10

Post by Yusef »

Yusef wrote:
1213 wrote:
Yusef wrote: Evil or Holy!?
In Bible Judas betrays Jesus for money. I think that is quite evil thing and therefore I don’t see how he could be held as holy.
first of all,
Your name remembers us to the special 313 helpers of team of The Saviour!
Plus your face and dress are so shine that your face isn't appeared! O:)

Two,
I did mistake here again,
Where!?
Here:
Yusef wrote:Then continued
- One among you from now until morning 12times denies me
- one other asked: Am I the same!!?
- Do you think that in your soul!!!?? You are the same
take a while i shouldn't show Jesus's emotional Angry!
Because I read the last chapters of the 4 Gospels and understood it's the same Simon Peter and his denying wasn't mean that he was been unbeliever about Jesus[pbuh]!
And it was a simple denying for just "Taqiyah"!

I was decided copy paste here that Hadith originaly in Arabic, but i searched and didn't find that in the internet
Yusef wrote:
Yusef wrote:
marco wrote:
Yusef wrote:
Also according to a hadith I read; One the greatest Christian scholars came to the 7th Imam, Moses alKadhim(a.s.) and converted to Islam cause of he got several answeres from the Imam including he was been awared that the mother of Mary was named 'Martha' the Syriac name, and 'Wahibah' the Arabic
Ref: http://smj-en.blogspot.com/2010/02/2.html?m=0 :study:

Amazing! It is surprising that the greatest Christian scholar in the known universe was persuaded simply by hearing a rumour about Mary's mum. Did the clever Imam get his knowledge from osmosis or was he able to travel in time just as Muhammad was able to travel in space?

There is scant information on Mary in the Bible. Where did Muhammad get his details from, given that Muhammad based his tales on Jewish and Christian stories?
first of all you should look at the lineage by clicking on the blogspot;

Two,
I've read many narration and story about great spiritual men of any religion that:
They weren't like you-not! Like me fool,
And they were very powerful in the spirituality! And it's enough for them that a bit information make them changing!
How do we now, if... you can look at the Crossword post i brought
See! How The Truth helps us!
Look at this post i sent the same time!
ref:Re: Judas Iscariot EVIL or HOLY !!?
Just a !!??? symbol of question changed our thoughts!!
See how just an additional simple question mark so much changes our viewpoint about a great concept!

For the same reason our 12 Imams[pbuth] have said: "everything you wanna quote from us, you should quote bit by bit even shouldn't change even a "vav"[and]"
In Arabic the word "And" is just a letter "w"
Example: Sun and Moon and Star = Al-Shams o Wa Al-Qamar W Al-Najm

Look at:
ref:Lineage of Jesus
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

Post Reply