'Last Days' bible prophesy's

[William]

There is an ever increasing awareness of scientific data pointing to the conclusion that humanity is causing the planet to warm up due to the manner in which we have been and still are living and consuming resources on the planet.

While there is still a lot of debate about whether or not it is actually happening, and to what extent the damage will be if it is indeed happening, I am wondering if those who claim it is not happening are doing so because it is against their Christian beliefs as to how the world will end, and thus - Christians being the greater percentage of the western worlds population, this denial is why there is not far more effort placed in doing something about the problem.

Q: Does the bible mention anything to do with the planets climate heating up as part of its last days prophesies?

Q: If not, then is the likeliest reason for many people - largely the Christian population - not believing in the climate change that many scientists are warning us about, the result of that?

[Mithrae]

There's nothing specific about the black death either (though plenty of mention of plagues) and nothing about WW1/2 and the Cold War (though plenty of mention of wars).

Important events for sure. But they proved not to be the end of the world, or even the end of the way the world does things. This thread is specific to world ending biblical prophesy in relation to what scientists are saying about climate change as likely to make human extinct and why Christians might not believe it...because it is not written in the bible.

This does bring up and interesting point related to that. From a Christians perspective, as bad as something might be, IF it is not important enough to be mentioned in the bible, THEN it is nothing to concern oneself about.

Where on earth are you getting that from? Honestly, I worry that you're going off the deep end here, my friend. "Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father." "Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me."

Those were not the end for humanity, and climate change almost certainly will not be either; even the fairly high-end impact estimates would suggest 'only' a few hundred million excess deaths, with near-extinction impacts having a tiny fraction of a percent chance of occurring.

So because your data say's it is not a world ending event for humanity, (only a few hundred million human deaths) there is no need to mention it in the bible?

Not being an author of the bible myself I'm not really qualified to say what was 'needed' to be mentioned therein. It's likely that people a few centuries from now will look back on climate change in a similar way to poor sanitation/hygiene, arms races or ineffective economic and political systems; as tragic consequences of our ignorance and stubbornness, but not world-ending events. You seem to be the one arguing that climate change 'should' be mentioned in the bible, aren't you? Or something along those lines; I'm not quite sure. But if so then by implication it's therefore incumbent on you to discuss why other, comparable issues for humanity are not mentioned as clearly and specifically as you seem to want climate change mentioned; or perhaps to show that their absence of specific mention in the bible meant that Christians didn't care about those other issues due to their religion, as you are alleging of climate change?

Arguably our biggest risk of extinction or domination comes from the development of superhuman AI. But that's pretty far-fetched; no ancient person could have dreamed of the 'breath of life' being given to inanimate objects that take over the world

Ah - so now we get to an interesting point about the nature of biblical prophesy. If a human cannot imagine it, then is cannot be prophesied.

Not quite what I was hinting at; I was alluding (only slightly tongue-in-cheek) to Revelation 13:15. You seem to be drawing some rather sweeping (and insulting) conclusions about Christian psychology vis a vis the 'last days,' and yet it's not very evident that you have a solid knowledge of Christian scripture about those last days. No doubt your comments would apply to some Christians - probably due far more to political orientation than religious background, as I've suggested - but in general terms it seems to be a total non-starter, as far as I can tell. Kind of like arguing that having dark skin in America causes people to want action on climate change; the correlation with political views really has no direct causal connection.

[William]

[Replying to post 21 by Mithrae]

This does bring up and interesting point related to that. From a Christians perspective, as bad as something might be, IF it is not important enough to be mentioned in the bible, THEN it is nothing to concern oneself about.

Where on earth are you getting that from?

In relation to the OP subject and some of the arguments Christians have made in this thread.

Honestly, I worry that you're going off the deep end here, my friend.

I don't even understand why you would make such a comment.

"Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father." "Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me."

I don't understand why you have quoted these script...ordinarily the writer should make an effort to make that clear to the reader.

Those were not the end for humanity, and climate change almost certainly will not be either; even the fairly high-end impact estimates would suggest 'only' a few hundred million excess deaths, with near-extinction impacts having a tiny fraction of a percent chance of occurring.

So because your data say's it is not a world ending event for humanity, (only a few hundred million human deaths) there is no need to mention it in the bible?

Not being an author of the bible myself I'm not really qualified to say what was 'needed' to be mentioned therein.

Then what impression were you trying to give with your argument?

You seem to be the one arguing that climate change 'should' be mentioned in the bible, aren't you?

I am asking why it isn't as well as whether Christians think that it is. Your reply simply reminded the reader that big events which have happened, are not mentioned in biblical prophesy. Apparently because they have not been big enough...

But if so then by implication it's therefore incumbent on you to discuss why other, comparable issues for humanity are not mentioned as clearly and specifically as you seem to want climate change mentioned;

What I want is simply answers to the OPQs - what I don't want are your absurdities as to what you think I am 'implying' or what you think I should have to do in relation to that, as both are unnecessary opinions and as such, are not required re the OP topic.

or perhaps to show that their absence of specific mention in the bible meant that Christians didn't care about those other issues due to their religion, as you are alleging of climate change?

If you don't understand the simply reason for the thread which is explained in the OP, you need only ask politely for clarification, rather than go about it in the way you are.

I will remind you that it was your argument which implied that biblical prophesies excluded events of significance that have occurred on the world stage, and that you did so in a way which also implied that such events were not worth mentioning.

I simply mirrored your reply which you now appear to take exception to. If you don't like it when others do it, then don't do it yourself.

Arguably our biggest risk of extinction or domination comes from the development of superhuman AI. But that's pretty far-fetched; no ancient person could have dreamed of the 'breath of life' being given to inanimate objects that take over the world

Ah - so now we get to an interesting point about the nature of biblical prophesy. If a human cannot imagine it, then is cannot be prophesied.

Not quite what I was hinting at;

What of it? I am simply taking your reasoning and allowing that to naturally lead on from there - critical thinking engaged.

You seem to be drawing some rather sweeping (and insulting) conclusions about Christian psychology vis a vis the 'last days,' and yet it's not very evident that you have a solid knowledge of Christian scripture about those last days.

I make no claims to intimately understand Christian script about the last days, which should be evident to the reader by examining the OPBlurb and subsequent questions.

Your confusion as to what conclusions I 'seem to be drawing' can be pinpointed in your having somehow skipped over my observation (i mentioned at least twice in this thread) that Christians appear to be more concerned with the promise of heaven/a new earth than helping to fix this one.

You even went as far as claiming that the climate issue is a political one (as if that exempted Christians) so I pointed out to you that Christians make up a high percentage of voters.
Perhaps you might consider actually addressing my argument than making personal comments as to your 'concern' over my state of mind.

[1213]

...because millions of Christians are actually contributing to the ruination AND giving their money to "Jesus will return and reward you with heaven/a new earth" preachers.

Please explain how that is ruination?

[marco]

Honestly, I worry that you're going off the deep end here, my friend.

Moderator Comment


And some would worry that you're being a bit uncivil, Mithrae. It may be the concern you express is rooted in philanthropy, but best not make such obervations.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[William]

[Replying to post 23 by 1213]

I dont believe people can stop the change, even if they would give all their money to climate change preachers. By what the Bible tells, people should take care of this planet, not ruin it, even if there is no climate change.

One would have to assume then that millions of Christians must not be seeing that this is what the bible tells, because millions of Christians are actually contributing to the ruination AND giving their money to "Jesus will return and reward you with heaven/a new earth" preachers.

Please explain how that is ruination?

Contributing.

I wrote - "millions of Christians are actually contributing to the ruination"

[Mithrae]

This does bring up and interesting point related to that. From a Christians perspective, as bad as something might be, IF it is not important enough to be mentioned in the bible, THEN it is nothing to concern oneself about.

Where on earth are you getting that from?

In relation to the OP subject and some of the arguments Christians have made in this thread.

Honestly, I worry that you're going off the deep end here, my friend.

I don't even understand why you would make such a comment.

"Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father." "Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me."

I don't understand why you have quoted these script...ordinarily the writer should make an effort to make that clear to the reader.

As you quoted above, you suggested that "From a Christians perspective, as bad as something might be, IF it is not important enough to be mentioned in the bible, THEN it is nothing to concern oneself about." There's three fairly obvious problems with that::
1 > It's obviously not true; Christians clearly do concern themselves with plenty of things not explicitly mentioned in the bible.
2 > It's extraordinarily rude; your thread is about the impacts of climate change, and this was specifically in response to a comment about the black death and WW1/2. Claiming that it's inherently a Christian perspective to not be concerned with such mass suffering is an incredibly insulting thing to say.
3 > It's directly contradicted by Jesus' words, among innumerable other examples; as quoted above, he said things like even sparrows' deaths are marked, and even the least of our fellow men should be treated as a Son of God himself

[William]

[Replying to post 26 by Mithrae]

1 > It's obviously not true; Christians clearly do concern themselves with plenty of things not explicitly mentioned in the bible.

Please list these plentiful things Mithrae - bearing in mind the OP topic and subsequent Qs.
I am not opposed to your argument above...it is just that you do not provide examples to which the reader can contemplate.

2 > It's extraordinarily rude; your thread is about the impacts of climate change, and this was specifically in response to a comment about the black death and WW1/2. Claiming that it's inherently a Christian perspective to not be concerned with such mass suffering is an incredibly insulting thing to say.

Obviously my attempt at clarifying went unnoticed by you Mithrae. My focus of attention re the reason why so many Christians are contributing to the problem of climate change is real, rather than rude. Is it rude of an individual to make the observations public? If you are saying that some Christians are not waiting for Jesus to return to reward them with heaven/a new earth and are trying to help fix our current problems re climate change, while I can definitely agree, it really doesn't change the facts I am actually arguing, in the context in which I am arguing them.

3 > It's directly contradicted by Jesus' words; as quoted above, he said things like even sparrows' deaths are marked, and even the least of our fellow men should be treated as a Son of God himself

I don't claim to believe that Jesus was a Christian, or that those calling themselves "Christians", follow Jesus Mithrae. Until you can provide conclusive evidence that this is indeed the case for Christianity/Christendom, I fail to see how your argument is relevant to my own.

As a Panenthist, the words you quote above are clearly understood by me to mean we should see one another AND the whole planet and everything on it - as aspects of GOD, and I have no problem with that at all. However, many folk calling themselves "Christians" DO have a problem with that...and perhaps that is another reason WHY they are unconcerned with the fate of the present Earth?

[Jagella]

Q: Does the bible mention anything to do with the planets climate heating up as part of its last days prophesies?

I'd say no, but the Bible is so ambiguous and so cryptic that I'm sure there's something that somebody will think is a prophecy of global warming. I see that JW has come up with something already.

Q: If not, then is the likeliest reason for many people - largely the Christian population - not believing in the climate change that many scientists are warning us about, the result of that?

I think that many Christians do reject the idea of global warming because it conflicts with their religious beliefs. Sadly, much knowledge is rejected by Christians for that reason.

[Jagella]

The expression global warming is not in the bible but Revelation does speak about God judging {quote} "those who destroy the earth" (NIV) . The New World Translation says God will...

REVELATION 11:18
" ...to bring to ruin those ruining* the earth"

* Ftn: *Or to destroy those who are destroying."

The passage you quoted is way too ambiguous to be referring to global warming with any significant probability. Revelation is a prediction of events that were to occur immediately after it was written, and since it was dead wrong in what it predicted, it seems foolish to think it predicts global warming that's occurring today.

[Jagella]

it is surprising so many modern day Christians don't accept scientific evidence that the climate is changing and could lead to a last days disaster if we people don't address the problem of global warming.

I was thinking about what you're posting here. Christianity may well threaten our survival.