This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 516 by Eloi]

That second meaning of the words of the Bible, which is mostly prophetic, cannot be correctly discerned by people who cannot understand spiritual matters, such as atheists who lack deep biblical knowledge.

But you do have that "deep spiritual knowledge", having "correctly discerned" the answers to the two questions asked by the author of this thread?

If you do, perhaps you could enlighten the readers here, with the two answers?

[Tcg]

That second meaning of the words of the Bible, which is mostly prophetic, cannot be correctly discerned by people who cannot understand spiritual matters, such as atheists who lack deep biblical knowledge.

What about we atheists who posses deep biblical knowledge?

Unless of course you are reverting to that old tired argument that attempts to disqualify opinions not based on their value, but rather on the people who hold them. Certainly you aren't creating an ad hominem fallacy?


Tcg

[marco]

That is what you might ask and answer, but it may just turn a rose into a dandelion.

Ah well, nver mind, you tried.

And a real plus is you did not turn it into a prophecy dissertation.

Thank you for finding a plus in the unlettered musings of Marco. I have not encountered any roses in Matthew; raves, maybe. Housman's "In fields where roses fade" is maybe not predictive but it makes more sense.

Matthew was caught up in the thrill of creation rumbling with expectation, so much so that the dead could not be kept in the earth. It is pretty certain he though magical things were about to happen. Through his rose-tinted spectacles he saw the world blossoming into

[Avoice]

He knows exactly what hes talking about. And he knows who it is who has deceived you with great signs and wonders.

false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.

Jesus knew that signs and wonders mean nothing. They prove nothing. He knew that God allows peopke to have powers to test them to see if we will follow theur voice or stay faithful to God and his Torah

WHY HE HAS EVEN TOLD YOU AHEAD OF TIME. Now figure out who it could it possibly be that fooled even the very elect..

See, he has told you ahead of time. There was no need to say that UNLESS the false messiah had fooled the very elect already. A person would have to be a fool for Christs sake not to know who hes talking about.
Speaking of great signs and wonders... Jesus must be the Messiah.. all those miracles prove it!! Uh huh yeah. Sure
A person who hears God's voice and obeys him knows better than to be mesmerized by such stuff Means nothing. Jesus, obce again is trying to tell you something.

[tam]

Peace to you!

[Replying to post 1 by Overcomer]

Discussions on this thread have moved very far from its focus and intention.

Indeed. As tends to be the case in these very long threads! This is not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes the meandering helps a person see or understand something they might have missed.

But to get back on topic:

Which was and is:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

What is your answer, and what is its basis?

I am just going to link back to some previous posts (for the sake of the reader; I believe you and I are on the same page on this matter)...as I do not have anything new to add:

viewtopic.php?p=939171#939171

viewtopic.php?p=941196#941196

viewtopic.php?p=941835#941835

viewtopic.php?p=941863#941863

viewtopic.php?p=941916#941916



Hopefully I linked to the right posts!


Peace to you Checkpoint, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Checkpoint]

That is what you might ask and answer, but it may just turn a rose into a dandelion.

Ah well, nver mind, you tried.

And a real plus is you did not turn it into a prophecy dissertation.

Thank you for finding a plus in the unlettered musings of Marco. I have not encountered any roses in Matthew; raves, maybe. Housman's "In fields where roses fade" is maybe not predictive but it makes more sense.

Matthew was caught up in the thrill of creation rumbling with expectation, so much so that the dead could not be kept in the earth. It is pretty certain he though magical things were about to happen. Through his rose-tinted spectacles he saw the world blossoming into

"blossoming into....." the rose.

Rose-tinted spectacles do sometimes fit the bill.

[Checkpoint]

Peace to you!

[Replying to post 1 by Overcomer]

Discussions on this thread have moved very far from its focus and intention.

Indeed. As tends to be the case in these very long threads! This is not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes the meandering helps a person see or understand something they might have missed.

But to get back on topic:

Which was and is:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

What is your answer, and what is its basis?

I am just going to link back to some previous posts (for the sake of the reader; I believe you and I are on the same page on this matter)...as I do not have anything new to add:

viewtopic.php?p=939171#939171

viewtopic.php?p=941196#941196

viewtopic.php?p=941835#941835

viewtopic.php?p=941863#941863

viewtopic.php?p=941916#941916



Hopefully I linked to the right posts!


Peace to you Checkpoint, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Thanks for that, Tammy.

Yes, we are on the same page.

Yet we have drawn a different conclusion as to the actual identity of "this generation"!

Did you realise that?

Grace and peace to you.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 520 by Avoice]

Jesus, obce again is trying to tell you something.

Yes indeed.

This thread thinks so too, its focus being one verse of Matthew 24, about which it asks two questions:

34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

So, what are your two answers, Avoice?

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 1 by Overcomer]

Unfulfilled.

Part of the wall still stands. It is an outer wall but it us part of the buildings if the temple. Ive seen it. I've touched it.

Those stones remain untouched. They stand as they did when Jesus said this.

They will all fall huh? It is fascinating how those stones are like the tribes of Israel. Yes, almost every stone fell. Yet there is that wall that remains standing. Just like the Jews. Must be the mortar.
What is even more interesting is there is a stone in the wall that weighs 600 tons. It is huuuuge. The largest in the great pyramids are like 50 or 60 tons. I think these numbers are accurate ir at least close to it

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 524 by Checkpoint]

It means the same thing as if he said it to us today. We would have every reason to believe we would see those things happen. What reason would i have to believe otherwise? I dont. He didnt give a reason nit to believe otherwise. Christians believe otherwise. Though they have no reason. But if they don't lie to themself then Jesus is not the messiah.

Truth is: There is evidence to believe he meant those he was talking to
There is no evidence to suggest he meant anything else

Now if Jesus said
This generation shall not pass without seeing me die and resurrect; do you think Christians would argue that he wasnt talking about those who he was talking to? No. Of course they woukdnt. Why? Because they believe he died and resurrected. And so this would be a positive passage. If they don't like something they will turn it into a metaphor for something else. Oddly enough, the metaphor just happens to be about something that meets their approval. AMAZING!