What is "The Good News?"

[EBA]

Tell me, what is "The Good News?"

Peace be to all.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 151 by Elijah John]

Checkpoint wrote

In the process you question, discount or dismiss whatever verses or passages saying anything contrary to what you have given your stamp of approval to.

Is it wise to formulate a whole doctrine based on such methods?

Elijah John began

Don't it beat all, that is exactly what conventional, Trinitarian apologists do. Either ingore inconvenient verses and passages completely, attempt to change the plain meaning of the passage or de-emphasize those inconvenient passages.

Well now, doesn't that absolutely take the cake.

Others do it, and that makes it ok to do it too...

Two wrongs do not a right make.

[shnarkle]

Before that day comes, they said "the wicked will be removed" ....

Yes, that is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe (see below)

PROVERBS 2:22
As for the wicked, they will be cut off from the earth, And the treacherous will be torn away from it.

PSALMS 37:10, 11
Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. But the meek will possess the earth, and they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

Yep, and "just a little while longer" came and went for those who are able to recieve the kingdom.

Yes well we Jehovah's Witnesses have our own interpretation of the expression "and just a little while longer" that is different from you.

Each to his own,

JW

A couple more JW's just stopped by my place again today. One of them has been by before with some of the other JW's who were dropping by regularly. That group stopped coming by probably because they became discouraged with my inabiliity to be swayed by personal interpretations. When somoene says, "a little while longer" to someone a few thousand years ago, chances are they actually meant "a little while longer". Some of my Irish relatives have a joke about asking an Irishman how far it is to wherever they may be going. The answer is always " oh, it's just a wee bit down the road". It could be on the other side of the continent and it would still be "a wee bit down othe road".

I see this as similar to what the Pharisees say about the kingdom. They make it out to be something that one will have to wait for because they aren't good enough. This is similar because it is saying that the wicked will have to be removed first and that don't look like it's going to happen anytime soon so we can safely assume that the kingdom will not be something we can expect in just a literal "little while longer".

I don't see it that way because that's not the way those who gave us these revelations see it. One of my favorite examples is that of Isaiah who sees nothing but the corruption and depravity of his people. Yet when he is given his beatific vision of heaven, the Seraphim see nothing but the holiness of God filling the heavens and the earth. So it depends on what one chooses to look at. One can follow Christ's example and look to God for insight, inspiration, guidance, etc., or one can look to the world and see the mess the world is in. Looking to God causes one to reflect God while looking to the world is likely to cause one to reflect the world.

[shnarkle]

Tell me, what is "The Good News?"

Peace be to all.

the good news is that all mankind is and can be saved form eternal separation from God by the blood of Yeshua, God only begotten Son...

Yes, that is PART of the Good News. There's more. What was Jesus' main topic in his preaching work? THE KINGDOM. He talked about it wherever he went. The Kingdom is a real government with Jesus as the King, that will be the avenue by which the earth is brought back to pristine conditions and mankind will experience real peace and joy.

He said: "I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth." (Luke 4:43)

Yes, that is PART of the good news. There's more.

More than promise of what will be one day. More than a future king and kingdom with its real experience of peace and joy.

The good news is that these are present today, for every believer.

John 14:

26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, that the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.

27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid.

Romans 14:

17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Could you provide any more quotes or references to support your position? These are good, but I'm sure there are more. I just can't think of any, and it's ticking me off.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 156 by Elijah John]

Jesus, if he mentioned it at all, did not emphasize the "blood".

He did:


This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matt 26:28



Peace to you,

your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

That's a mention. Not a repeated emphasis. And only said, (if he really did say it), towards the end of his ministry.

Doesn't seem like the mission from the beginning. Certainly not in the opening chapters of Luke where he reads from the Isaiah scroll, nor in his most important Sermon on the Mount.

Don't forget, as 1213 so often rightly points out, that Jesus proclaimed the forgiveness of sins, and didn't tie that to his eventual blood.

[jgh7]

[Replying to post 156 by Elijah John]

Jesus, if he mentioned it at all, did not emphasize the "blood".

He did:


This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matt 26:28



Peace to you,

your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

That's a mention. Not a repeated emphasis. And only said, (if he really did say it), towards the end of his ministry.

Doesn't seem like the mission from the beginning. Certainly not in the opening chapters of Luke where he reads from the Isaiah scroll, nor in his most important Sermon on the Mount.

Don't forget, as 1213 so often rightly points out, that Jesus proclaimed the forgiveness of sins, and didn't tie that to his eventual blood.

When multiple people provide you with scripture refuting your stance, you either say that it wasn't repeated enough times, or that it was said at the end of Jesus' ministry and not the beginning, or that it wasn't in his most important sermon, or that it was in a gospel that can't be trusted, or that it was probably made up and not actually what Jesus said, or a bunch of other things.

Why do you debate with people when you've already made up your mind to discount any scripture that goes against your position? You pick and choose what parts of the New Testament you consider to be real and what parts you consider to be fake in order to suit your interpretation.

[Checkpoint]

Tell me, what is "The Good News?"

Peace be to all.

the good news is that all mankind is and can be saved form eternal separation from God by the blood of Yeshua, God only begotten Son...

Yes, that is PART of the Good News. There's more. What was Jesus' main topic in his preaching work? THE KINGDOM. He talked about it wherever he went. The Kingdom is a real government with Jesus as the King, that will be the avenue by which the earth is brought back to pristine conditions and mankind will experience real peace and joy.

He said: "I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth." (Luke 4:43)

Yes, that is PART of the good news. There's more.

More than promise of what will be one day. More than a future king and kingdom with its real experience of peace and joy.

The good news is that these are present today, for every believer.

John 14:

26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, that the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.

27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid.

Romans 14:

17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Could you provide any more quotes or references to support your position? These are good, but I'm sure there are more. I just can't think of any, and it's ticking me off.

My position on what, specifically?

Bible resources and helps are freely available. You could do your own search.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 161 by shnarkle]

Well I see you have your own interpretation and we have ours.

Not everyone interprets the bible the same way.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 156 by Elijah John]

Jesus, if he mentioned it at all, did not emphasize the "blood".

He did:


This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matt 26:28



Peace to you,

your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

That's a mention. Not a repeated emphasis. And only said, (if he really did say it), towards the end of his ministry.

Doesn't seem like the mission from the beginning. Certainly not in the opening chapters of Luke where he reads from the Isaiah scroll, nor in his most important Sermon on the Mount.

Don't forget, as 1213 so often rightly points out, that Jesus proclaimed the forgiveness of sins, and didn't tie that to his eventual blood.

There is a fundamental distinction within the Mosaic law which divides sin into intentional sin and unintentional sin. The remedies for each aren't the same; the former requires repentance and restitution while the latter requires sacrifice. The gospel narratives are also divided by the proclamation of the gospel and the rejection of the gospel. The proclamation requires repentance while the rejection requires sacrifice. Jesus covers the entire spectrum of the Mosaic law. He fulfills the law not just by keeping it, but by also becoming the sacrifice which covers and removes sin.

[shnarkle]

Tell me, what is "The Good News?"

Peace be to all.

the good news is that all mankind is and can be saved form eternal separation from God by the blood of Yeshua, God only begotten Son...

Yes, that is PART of the Good News. There's more. What was Jesus' main topic in his preaching work? THE KINGDOM. He talked about it wherever he went. The Kingdom is a real government with Jesus as the King, that will be the avenue by which the earth is brought back to pristine conditions and mankind will experience real peace and joy.

He said: "I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth." (Luke 4:43)

Yes, that is PART of the good news. There's more.

More than promise of what will be one day. More than a future king and kingdom with its real experience of peace and joy.

The good news is that these are present today, for every believer.

John 14:

26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, that the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.

27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid.

Romans 14:

17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Could you provide any more quotes or references to support your position? These are good, but I'm sure there are more. I just can't think of any, and it's ticking me off.

My position on what, specifically?

The kingdom being present today. I just thought of one. When Jesus responds to John the Baptists request, his reply is that the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk.

Bible resources and helps are freely available. You could do your own search.

Thanks, I just googled "the kingdom present today" and got a few that look promising. You seem to know what you're talking about, so I thought you might have a few more quotes handy.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 156 by Elijah John]

Jesus, if he mentioned it at all, did not emphasize the "blood".

He did:


This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Matt 26:28



Peace to you,

your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

That's a mention. Not a repeated emphasis. And only said, (if he really did say it), towards the end of his ministry.

Doesn't seem like the mission from the beginning. Certainly not in the opening chapters of Luke where he reads from the Isaiah scroll, nor in his most important Sermon on the Mount.

Don't forget, as 1213 so often rightly points out, that Jesus proclaimed the forgiveness of sins, and didn't tie that to his eventual blood.

There is a fundamental distinction within the Mosaic law which divides sin into intentional sin and unintentional sin. The remedies for each aren't the same; the former requires repentance and restitution while the latter requires sacrifice. The gospel narratives are also divided by the proclamation of the gospel and the rejection of the gospel. The proclamation requires repentance while the rejection requires sacrifice. Jesus covers the entire spectrum of the Mosaic law. He fulfills the law not just by keeping it, but by also becoming the sacrifice which covers and removes sin.

Interesting distinctions.

If you want to appeal to Mosaic law, a couple of questions for you. Was Jesus offerered on an altar or in the Temple? No, he died on a Roman cross. Was Jesus killed by the hand of a Priest? No, he was killed by Roman executioners.

Jesus died as a martyr, for what he believed in. Holding fast to the end. To see this martyrdom as a "sacrifice for sin" is an interpretation. A theologian's attempt to find meaning in the unexpected death of the "Messiah".

Once again, didn't Jesus proclaim forgiveness and the Father's mercy, before his execution was even on the horizon?

Didn't the contrite criminal on the cross obtain forgiveness without seeing his fellow victim (Jesus) as a "sacrifice for sin"?