Are homosexual relations sinful?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #101

Post by JehovahsWitness »

bluegreenearth wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:15 pm
..all people are harmed in some way by the prohibition of homosexual relations.
FIRST CAUSE NO HARM

HARM involves the inflicting of pain that causes damage and results in a reduction of effectiveness. Some things, hurt or cause pain but cause no harm since they do not reduce effectiveness and/or result in long term benefits . Indeed a life saving operation may be physically, mentally and emotionally very painful but have long term benefits.
HEBREWS 12:11

No discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but it is painful;* yet afterward, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Just as doctors are sworn to cause no harm but not to cause no pain, the respect and/or enforcement of bible law regarding homosexual acts may indeed be painful for all concerned but they are not HARMFUL. While people are undoubtedly harmed by anti-gay prejudice and religious bigotry, both of which the bible condemns, the prohibition of homosexual practices in itself is harmful to nobody. How people react to said law and the effects of their reaction, is their own.


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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #102

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:09 am
Miles wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:04 pm
...JWs treat sexual orientation as if it was a chosen part of the homosexual's identity
How does one treat a sexual orientation? Sexual orientation is simply a feeling, one can't interact with someone else's feelings any more than one can walk up to jealous and offer to buy it a coffee.
One treats it as one treats any unchosen aspect, be it eye color, hair color or height; with complete acceptance. Do you treat people with hazel eyes differently than you treat people with blue eyes? Do you treat people with brown hair differently than you treat people with blonde hair? Do you treat people under 5' 8" differently than you treat people over 5' 8"? The same goes for sexual orientation. You should be treating people with a sexual orientation of homosexuality just like you treat people with a sexual orientation of heterosexuality, with absolutely no difference in any regard.

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:09 am
Jehovah's Witness ...
  • (a) treat all people with love and respect including homosexuals.

    (b) view engaging in homosexual ACTS (intercourse, sexual contact) as a choice

    (c) view homosexuality ( sexual or romantic attraction to others of one's same biological sex) as evidence of human imperfection and not necessarily a conscious choice*
So, if it isn't necessarily a conscious choice, what does that leave you with? It leaves you with the fact that like heterosexuality, homosexuality isn't a chosen sexual orientation.
JehovahsWitness wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:09 am
* Sexuality is complex and the scientific community is divided as to the degree same sex attraction is genetically driven; Jehovahs Witnesses avoid becoming embroiled in that debate.
Whether or not sexual attraction, same sex or otherwise, is genetically driven is immaterial, The fact remains that sexual orientations are NOT SOMETHING WE SELECT, but are thrust upon us whether we want it's specific form or not. To tell you the truth, considering all the **** homosexuals put up with, if people had the choice I doubt they'd choose to be a homosexual. Would you have?


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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #103

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:04 pm
...as a JW how do you reconcile god's laws with man's laws?
If by "man's laws"you mean the existing secular laws of our country of residence, I would say we follow a principle of "relative submission", meaning as long as the secular law doesn't prohibit something that Gods law commands (or impose something Gods law prohibits) the we obey all secular laws.



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CHRISTIANITY, THE MOSIAC LAW and ...SABBATH KEEPING
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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #104

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:51 am
Miles wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:04 pm
...as a JW how do you reconcile god's laws with man's laws?
If by "man's laws"you mean the existing secular laws of our country of residence, I would say we follow a principle of "relative submission", meaning as long as the secular law doesn't prohibit something that Gods law commands (or impose something Gods law prohibits) the we obey all secular laws.
But considering "If a man lies with a man as one lies with woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Leviticus 20:13), doesn't secular law prohibit you from following god's command to kill homosexuals?

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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #105

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Jehovahs Witnesses do not believe Christians are under the Mosaic law*

NOTE :The Mosaic law did not command homosexuals be killed, only those that chose to break the laws prohibiting homosexual ACTS (same sex sexual intercourse/ sexual activities).


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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #106

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:02 pm
Jehovahs Witnesses do not believe Christians are under the Mosaic law*

NOTE :The Mosaic law did not command homosexuals be killed, only those that chose to break the laws prohibiting homosexual ACTS (same sex sexual intercourse/ sexual activities).
My mistake. God only commanded his followers to kill those homosexuals who had sex. So . . . . .

Considering "If a man lies with a man as one lies with woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads" (Leviticus 20:13), doesn't secular law prohibit you from following god's command to kill homosexuals who had sex with each other?

But never mind because you don't believe Christians are under the Mosaic law, which I assume includes JWs.

Which would mean JWs also don't follow the 10 Cs. Now that's interesting, especially for a Christian.

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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #107

Post by brunumb »

Just wondering. "If a man lies with a woman as a man lies with a man" is that also detestable? Many heterosexual couples engage in the kinds of sexual practices as same sex couples and it is evidently quite popular. The only difference is the gender of the partner. Does the Bible prohibit such sexual practices, or is God only hung up on not having same gender couples enjoying themselves?
Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #108

Post by Miles »

brunumb wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:50 pm
Just wondering. "If a man lies with a woman as a man lies with a man" is that also detestable? Many heterosexual couples engage in the kinds of sexual practices as same sex couples and it is evidently quite popular. The only difference is the gender of the partner. Does the Bible prohibit such sexual practices, or is God only hung up on not having same gender couples enjoying themselves?
When you figure out why some Christians prefer to join god and in his immoral preferences, e.g condoning slavery and hating homosexuals who have sex, let me know

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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #109

Post by Mithrae »

Since I happened across a TEDx talk about it the other day (Let’s Talk Porn | Maria Ahlin | TEDxGöteborg), maybe an analogy can be drawn here with many folks' attitude towards the consentual production and consumption of pornography. It's legal, it doesn't violate a harm principle in any kind of obvious way, and being drawn towards other people's sexuality for our own titillation seems to be quite natural. But some people argue that it's often highly addictive and by changing our threshold for sexual stimulus can both interfere with normal sexual enjoyment and often depicts extreme/fetish acts and degradation of women (with worryingly increased frequency over the decades).

Can we all agree that, distinct from legality, people can have moral reservations about sexual behaviours (such as porn, sex outside of marriage or homosexual relations) and decide that it's not for them - and recommend others to avoid it also - without being automatically subject to accusations of prejudice, discrimination, hatreds or phobias?

Seems to me that even many traditionalist Christians who still think that homosexual relations are 'sinful' have nevertheless often come a long way in their attitudes from Christians in previous generations (and sadly, many Christians who do remain bigoted and promote discrimination today), and failing to recognize that progress by unnuanced accusations and rhetoric is not likely to promote further understanding and compassion. It may do the opposite if anything, causing some traditionalist Christians to figure that they may as well be hanged for the sheep as the lamb; if they're going to be slammed as "homophobic" or the like merely for saying that it doesn't align with their moral framework, they may as well go all the way and try to legally enforce those morals on everyone else too! It should be encouraging when people go out of their way to emphasize that they don't support legal discrimination or intolerant attitudes/acts - that they agree with a great deal of the societal progress which has been made on the issue over the past fifty odd years - even if they don't agree on absolutely everything.

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Re: Are homosexual relations sinful?

Post #110

Post by JehovahsWitness »

bluegreenearth wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:15 pm

Yes, all people are harmed in some way by the prohibition of homosexual relations.
I see no evidence of this.


ARE PROHIBITIONS AGAINST HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONS* HARMFUL?

Image

PROHIBITION
Is there a difference between prohibiting homosexuals and prohibiting homosexual ACTS?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 40#p994140

WHY does God prohibit homosexual acts?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 94#p994394

Do Jehovahs Witnesse believe homosexual marriage is a basic HUMAN RIGHT?
viewtopic.php?p=1016295#p1016295

Why do Christians wear MIXED FABRICS and eat SEAFOOD yet prohibit homosexual acts ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 72#p996772

Should Christians repudiate the biblical laws calling for the execution of those guilty of performing homosexual acts?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 78#p994278
HARM
Prohibitions: Is all pain harmful?
viewtopic.php?p=1016387#p1016387

Have there not been studies proving the negative effects of such* prohibitions?
viewtopic.php?p=1016328#p1016328

JS Mills: Who is HARMED by consentual homosexual practices?
viewtopic.php?p=1015824#p1015824

Isn't homosexual advantageous for the human species?
viewtopic.php?p=1015590#p1015590
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HOMOSEXUALITY, HOMOPHOBIA and ...BIBLICAL PROHIBITIONS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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