John 1:1-2Cor 4:4

[kjw47]

Any can look up the way they are written in Greek-- At both spots the Greek word for the true God ends in a v=God, capitol G. -- Both the word and satan' Greek word ends in a g= god small g= 100% fact-- Trinity religions are false religion. Translating works the same at both spots. Billions have been mislead by an error of a capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1-- Only found in altered translations( removal of Gods name in over 7000 places by satans will) so guess whose will had a error capitol G put in the last line at John 1:1? Even though the Greek lexicons show its error. The trinity scholars have to know its error. If they said something hundreds if not thousands of religions claiming to be christian are exposed as false religion, Billions of $$$ lost each year, and probably sued by 2 billion humans as well, because they know they teach lies. Owned and operated by satan, like this-2 Cor 11:12-15)--misleading all into breaking Gods #1 commandment daily.--RUN FROM THEM.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #26]


Jeremiah 23:5-6 (KJV) 5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, JEHOVAH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Are you claiming that this verse establishes that the promised Meswiah will be equal in power , rank and age to Almighty God the Father (YHWH ) by virtue of this proohetic name?

If calling the Messiah by a theophoric name indicates he as old as God and is equal to The Almighty in power and rank? ....why does calling JERUSALEM by the same name not indicate the city is old as God and is equal to The Almighty in power and rank?

JW

[Eddie Ramos]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #26]


Jeremiah 23:5-6 (KJV) 5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, JEHOVAH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Are you claiming that this verse establishes that the promised Meswiah will be equal in power , rank and age to Almighty God the Father (YHWH ) by virtue of this proohetic name?

If calling the Messiah by a theophoric name indicates he as old as God and is equal to The Almighty in power and rank? ....why does calling JERUSALEM by the same name not indicate the city is old as God and is equal to The Almighty in power and rank?

JW

The name "Jehovah our righteousness" teaches us who this coming Christ was. He is JEHOVAH, he is God with us, He is the everlasting Father, the Almighty. To deny Christ's deity is to deny JEHOVAH as well.

John 8:24 (KJV 1900)
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

Now let's talk about the very similar scripture referencing Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 23:6 (KJV 1900)
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his (the Christ's) name whereby he shall be called, JEHOVAH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Jeremiah 33:16 (KJV 1900)
16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, JEHOVAH our righteousness.

While you may only see an actual tribe or an actual city in the above passage, it's a reference to people, not to the city itself. Specifically, it's a reference to the people of God.

Matthew 23:37 (KJV 1900)
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Is this speaking about the city or the people?

Revelation 21:2 (KJV 1900)
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

An actual city or the people of God? The people of God of course.

The reason Jerusalem (the people of God) are called by the same exact name as the Christ (JEHOVAH our righteousness) is because through Christ's work of redemption, the elect's righteousness became a direct result of Christ's own righteousness. The 2 passages in Jeremiah are not saying anything about being equal in power and rank, that is something you are inferring into the text.

When JEHOVAH decided to come into this world in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, he emptied himself of his glory by coming into this world in the likeness of men, who by nature come into this world as sinful creatures. Although Christ himself did not come into this world through natural means but rather through supernatural means, though a virgin. Nevertheless, he, as God, and being equal with God because he is God, came into this world to suffer death to demonstrate how he made payment for sin before the world began.

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900)
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Acts 20:28 (KJV 1900)
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

I can't presume to convince anyone who cannot see the truth of who Christ is. Only God could open the eyes of an individual and he is no longer doing that. This is the very reason Christ spoke in parables to the multitudes, so seeing they could not see and hearing they could not hear. In other words, to keep those, who were not of his lost sheep, in darkness.

Colossians 2:9 (KJV 1900)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

For in Christ dwelleth the fulness of the Godhead in bodily form.

[JehovahsWitness]

The name "Jehovah our righteousness" teaches us who this coming Christ was. He is JEHOVAH, he is God with us,

You did not answer the question. Since many bible characters had theophoric names and Im sure you are not suggesting they are Jehovah, your comment is not biblically sound.


[

Theophoric names were not uncommon are in Jewish culture and many people and places were given them. This does not mean that those having or associated with the name are actually Almighty God themselves.

THEOPHORIC (from Greek: θεόφορος, theophoros, literally "bearing or carrying a god") embeds the word equivalent of 'god' or God's name in a person's name, reflecting something about the character of the person so named in relation to that deity. For example the bible nzme ELISABETH can be rendered in Hebrew, "God of Plenty” that does not mean she was actually Almighty God

Some more examples of theophoric names ...

EL-ijah - my GOD is Jah
Gabri-EL - Mighty man of GOD
EL-isha - GOD Is Salvation
Dani-EL - My Judge Is GOD
Samu-EL - Name of GOD
Jo-EL - Jehovah Is GOD

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[Eddie Ramos]

The name "Jehovah our righteousness" teaches us who this coming Christ was. He is JEHOVAH, he is God with us,

You did not answer the question. Since many bible characters had theophoric names and Im sure you are not suggesting they are Jehovah, your comment is not biblically sound.


[

Theophoric names were not uncommon are in Jewish culture and many people and places were given them. This does not mean that those having or associated with the name are actually Almighty God themselves.

THEOPHORIC (from Greek: θεόφορος, theophoros, literally "bearing or carrying a god") embeds the word equivalent of 'god' or God's name in a person's name, reflecting something about the character of the person so named in relation to that deity. For example the bible nzme ELISABETH can be rendered in Hebrew, "God of Plenty” that does not mean she was actually Almighty God

Some more examples of theophoric names ...

EL-ijah - my GOD is Jah
Gabri-EL - Mighty man of GOD
EL-isha - GOD Is Salvation
Dani-EL - My Judge Is GOD
Samu-EL - Name of GOD
Jo-EL - Jehovah Is GOD

Just because you give a theological name with a man-made definition doesn't mean the scriptures are bound to those rules. Also, just because a meaning can be obtained from a name by breaking it down into its root words, Like Elijah, Daniel, Gabriel, etc, doesn't mean that that's what's being done in Jeremiah 23:6. This is a completely different name that doesn't need to be broken down into its root wording in order to derive its meaning, like the names you listed. This name is given clearly as it's written. So, the fact that your theological teachers decided, out of their own whim, to associate them together as the same thing, leaves a lot to be said for their intentions to find a way out of something which contradicts their position of Christ.

But if we allow the scriptures alone to guide us, then the theological term "theophoric" has no place in the scriptures. This means that every name from which a meaning can be derived is recorded to teach us a spiritual truth, as well as more about the one named.

Elijah, for example comes from the Hebrew words transliterated as, "ale" & "yaw". And can mean "God is Jehovah" or "Jehovah is God". And this name of Elijah bears this truth, that Jehovah is God. Now, Gabriel is also made up of 2 Hebrew words transliterated as "geber" & "el" which means "man God" or "God man". And since Gabriel is actually the Lord Jesus Christ, then this definition name describes him perfectly, as that is exactly who Christ is, both God and man.

And this is the Bible's own way of teaching us how to understand names in the scriptures. But, with Jeremiah 23:6, we don't find this need to break down a name. Here (as well as other places) we're given direct names and titles which correspond directly with the Lord Jesus Christ, and each name teaches us more about who he is.

Jeremiah 23:6 (KJV 1900)
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Here is another example:

Isaiah 9:6 (KJV 1900)
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
And the government shall be upon his shoulder:
And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Each name whereby Christ is called is a name which teaches us more of who he is. No need to use a theological term to try water down what the Bible is actually teaching in these passages.

Isaiah 7:14 (KJV 1900)
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;
Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,
And shall call his name Immanuel.

Now "Immanuel" is a name unlike the other names given to Christ. But this name serves the same purpose as it teaches us more about who Christ is. He is God, but not only is he God, but God with man. When we look up this Hebrew word, we can see that it's made up of 2 Hebrew words which come to mean "God with us". And of course we can verify this by turning to the New Testament.

Matthew 1:23 (KJV 1900)
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

And that's exactly who Christ was. JEHOVAH our righteousness, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, GOD with us.

[JehovahsWitness]

..
Gabriel is actually the Lord Jesus Christ..

What is the scriptural basis for this conclusion?



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[Eddie Ramos]

..
Gabriel is actually the Lord Jesus Christ..

What is the scriptural basis for this conclusion?

The same basis used by the JW site.

"At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ.....".

As I mentioned before, names given to individuals in the Bible help us to know more about an individual. When we study every "angel of the LORD" that was mentioned in the Old Testament, we learn that they were ALL Jesus Christ himself. The word "angel" is also understood as the word "messenger". While this can apply to regular people as well as angelic beings (actual angels), it also applies to Christ, as Christ is the messenger (angel) of the covenant.

Malachi 3:1 (KJV 1900)

Behold, I will send my messenger(angel) (John the Baptist), and he shall prepare the way before me:
And the Lord (Christ), whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple,
Even the messenger (the angel) of the covenant, whom ye delight in:
Behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

But if we pay close attention, we notice that the way regular angels (messengers) (like John the Baptist) spoke and the way every angel of the LORD spoke is the key difference between them. Every time the angel of the LORD spoke, it was as if though God himself was speaking. That's because he was, in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Genesis 16:10 (KJV 1900)
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

It's not an angel that would multiply her seed but JEHOVAH.

Genesis 22:11–12 (KJV 1900)
And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Abraham withheld not his son from JEHOVAH, not from the common perception of an angel.

Judges 6:22–23 (KJV 1900)
And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the LORD, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord GOD! for because I have seen an angel of the LORD face to face. 23 And the LORD said unto him, Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die.

Now where in the Bible do we read that we have to fear seeing an angel of the LORD face to face and die because of it? No where. But we do read about seeing JEHOVAH face to face and dying.

Exodus 33:19–20 (KJV 1900)
And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me (his face, that is), and live.

Not being bale to see God's face is teaching us about the condition of mankind in their sin and the perfect glory of God in his righteousness. This is why no one could see God face to face and live. UNLESS, God had mercy on them and forgiven their sins. Now, they were no longer sinners in God's eyes, but righteous. The reason, Moses (at that time) could not see God face to face was because Moses was a picture of the law of God, and the law only brought condemnation to man. But Jacob could.

Genesis 32:29–30 (KJV 1900)
And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Israel also could because they typified the people of God.

Numbers 14:14 (KJV 1900)
And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou LORD art among this people, that thou LORD art seen face to face, and that thy cloud standeth over them, and that thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.

Manoah and his wife also saw.

Judges 13:18–23 (KJV 1900)
And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret? 19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the LORD: and the angel did wondrously; and Manoah and his wife looked on. 20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground. 21 But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD. 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. 23 But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.

The angel of the LORD said his name was "secret". This is not a good translation. This Hebrew word is actually the word "wonderful". Now let's make the substitution which the Bible allows here, "Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is wonderful". Whose name is "wonderful"? That's right, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 9:6 (KJV 1900)
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
And the government shall be upon his shoulder:
And his name shall be called Wonderful (same Hebrew word),
Counseller, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Now getting back to the angel Gabriel, his name is made up of 2 Hebrew Words, the word "man" and the Word "God". We know Gabriel is no ordinary being, yet his name identify him as God and man. The Bible gives only one solution as to who else identifies this way. The Lord Jesus Christ.

Incidentally, the Bible certainly also identifies Gabriel as both an angel and a man. Just like the Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 1:26 (KJV 1900)
And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

Daniel 9:21 (KJV 1900)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

And the Bible also shows us that Gabriel can open someone's understanding to the scriptures. Just like the Lord Jesus Christ.

Daniel 8:16 (KJV 1900)
And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

Luke 24:45 (KJV 1900)
Then opened he (Christ) their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Michael the arch angel is also the Lord Jesus Christ, but that one you already knew.

[JehovahsWitness]

..
Gabriel is actually the Lord Jesus Christ..

What is the scriptural basis for this conclusion?

The word "angel" is also understood as the word "messenger".

1. There are many angels mentioned in scripture that are not Jesus; obviously being refered to as an angel is not enough for us to conclude that the angel GABRIEL must be JESUS.







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[Eddie Ramos]

..
Gabriel is actually the Lord Jesus Christ..

What is the scriptural basis for this conclusion?

The word "angel" is also understood as the word "messenger".

1. There are many angels mentioned in scripture that are not Jesus; obviously being refered to as an angel is not enough for us to conclude that the angel GABRIEL must be JESUS.

Well, if you only partially quote me, then you seem to have all the reason in the world. But that's not all I said in arriving at a biblical conclusion to your initial question. It's still there for anyone to examine.

[JehovahsWitness]

1. There are many angels mentioned in scripture that are not Jesus; obviously being refered to as an angel is not enough for us to conclude that the angel GABRIEL must be JESUS.

Well, if you only partially quote me, then you seem to have all the reason in the world. But that's not all I said in arriving at a biblical conclusion to your initial question. It's still there for anyone to examine.

Everything else in your post has been addressed in earlier posts and the links provided.

Have an excellent evening,


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #23]

I don't know Greek either. I was using biblehub.com. From my understanding, they use the critical text, while the Hendrickson is based off the Textus Receptus. Do you have an opinion on the differences between Greek texts?

No, I don't at this time.