The Invitation to do the Greater Things

[ThijsH]

One of the most provocative and encouraging statements I have found in the Bible is this one:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.” (John 14:12, NKJV)

For me, this means also that I should not put any limits on what I think I can or cannot do, or rather, what the Love, Power and Wisdom of God can do through me. I believe following Jesus is adventurous, do you also experience it this way?

[ThijsH]

One of the most provocative and encouraging statements I have found in the Bible is this one:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.” (John 14:12, NKJV)

For me, this means also that I should not put any limits on what I think I can or cannot do, or rather, what the Love, Power and Wisdom of God can do through me. I believe following Jesus is adventurous, do you also experience it this way?

It seems to mean that if you are not doing greater things, or even lesser things, then you apparently do not believe the Words that Yeshua has spoken and are separated from the Lord who is in heaven. You might want to do a personal introspection on your life and beliefs.

Yes, 2ndpillar2, thank you for responding, and I believe indeed that we should all be active, guided by the Voice for God. We cannot really get around the statement, “By their fruits, you shall know them.” I am always grateful when I can be a channel for the Grace of God to reach my brothers. Hallelujah!

I think "by their fruits, you shall know them" is in referral to the trees of the "false prophets" (Mt 7:13-28), whereas the "fruit trees" the source of the good and bad fruit, would refer to the assemblies following the "false prophets", the most notable being the "Christians" following the false gospel of grace of the false prophet Paul, and the Muslim's following the false prophet Mohammad, whereas the bad fruit being displayed often by both assemblies. Whereas the bad fruit of individuals, could be likened to the tares of those who "commit lawlessness", those who follow the false gospel of the cross, whereas the "Law" is nailed to the cross, who are destined to "the furnace of fire" (Mt 13) versus those who do righteousness and will shine as the sun once the "tares" are "first" gathered and thrown into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:30), which is the "Great tribulation" (Har-Magedon), which is near. Often those who follow voices, are called mass killers. One must be able discern one voice from another, which is good reason to have the Law, the Commandments, and be skeptical of so-called prophets, and experts.

Well, that sounds a bit grim. My understanding of this statement, “by their fruits, you shall know them”, is that those who open up for God’s Grace to move through them, will be involved in healing, teaching, or in general, in service to the Kingdom of God. And those fruits, for which all the credit should be given to our Heavenly Father, are something for which they are known then. And I believe that it is only Grace which we are receiving. Saved by Grace through faith.

About Paul being a false prophet, are you referring to the Biblical apostle Paul?

I suggest that you re read Matthew 13:15-22, whereas the "many" are deceived by the "false prophets", leading to "destruction", and that you will know "them" by their "fruits". Even so every good tree produces good fruit; but the rotten tree bears bad fruit. On "that day", they will say to me Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons , and in your name perform many miracles? And I will declare to them, I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS (as in follow the false gospel of the cross, whereas the law is nailed to the cross). Sounds like a description of the false prophet Paul.

The false prophet Paul teaches to call on the name of the Lord, which is taken from Joel 2, whereas one was to call on the name of the LORD, not the Lord, in order to "survive"/"be delivered" from the coming day of the LORD, which is Har-Magedon (Rev 16), which is the Great Tribulation (Mt 24). As examples of rotten fruits, look at the Inquisition by the Roman mother Church, the killings of Protestants by Catholics, and even the killing of Catholics by Protestants. Look at the particular rotten fruits of the Catholic church with respect to Biden, Pelosi, Stalin, etc. As for the "kingdom", that is not the message of the false prophet Paul. His message was one of lawlessness, to nail the law to the cross. The message of Yeshua was the "kingdom". If you want to know about the kingdom, start with Matthew 13:13 and finish out the chapter. It involves two messages, one of the "devil" and his message was one "commit lawlessness", which ends with the "furnace of fire". The other message was that from the "son of man", which was to do righteousness. Which is to keep the Law.

Please wait a moment. I know that there are many people who hear strange things in their minds and then claim to represent the Kingdom of God when they verbalize those things. Many of these people can certainly be called false prophets, yes. Yet you keep talking about “the false prophet Paul” and I asked, “Do you mean the apostle Paul?” I don’t want to have any misunderstandings about what you are saying. Can you please respond to this question?

I am talking about the guy who claims to be a Pharisee of Pharisees, yet a Gentile to the Gentiles. Who says to call on the "Lord" to be saved, and who supposedly cast out a demon per the "Christian" narrative whereas Paul revived a guy who fell out of a window, and was said to have raised the dead, and supposedly healed the sick. That would be the same characterization given by Yeshua to those who cried "Lord, Lord", cast out demons, and in your name did "many miracles", yet Yeshua would say to them, "I never knew you, "DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS (gospel of grace/cross). Paul would be 1 of three "shepherds" chosen by the "LORD", two to shepherd the "flock (Christian church) doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11). Peter, the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:17) to be the second "staff" to lead the "flock" (Christain church), whereas the 3rd shepherd being Judas Iscariot, who sold his soul for 30 shekels of silver (Zech 11:12). Paul, which means "small/little", or in the vernacular of Paul, the "foremost" over everything, including "sinner", was originally named Saul. Paul (least (foremost of little)) would be what those of the kingdom would call the purveyor of lawlessness, as in the foremost of little, being "least" (Matthew 4:17-19). Paul would be the "false prophet" of Revelation 16, along with the "beast" and "devil", whose demon spirits would arise and lead the rulers/kings of the nations/Gentiles to Har-Magedon (area of the great tribulation), which is historically located between Damascus and Jerusalem, the place of where the terrorist supported by Iran are located today, and where the Ottomans under German leadership, were defeated in 1917, to open up the opportunity for the Zionist to enter into Judea, eventually bringing about the state of Israel in 1948. The state of Israel is a keyway into the era of the "Kingdom of God" whereas Judah and Ephraim/Joseph will be reunited on the land given to Jacob/Israel, under the leadership of king David (Ezekiel 36 & 37).

This is getting really convoluted, I must say. Now we are already talking about terrorists in Iran. For the third time, can you please let me know, do you mean the apostle Paul? Yes or no? You don’t owe me an explanation, but I am not going to respond anymore if this simple question is not answered.

Whatever you decide to do with this, Merry Christmas and God bless!

[JehovahsWitness]

I do not know why you mention “feeling in your heart,” I certainly didn’t mention that. ...

I do not know why you mention “geographical location” I certainly didn’t mention that.

[JehovahsWitness]

IS GOD IN A PLACE?

A "place" is defined as : the area or space occupied by or intended for something. So a place is where something (or someone) is located (a location is a particular place or position)

• Where is God? The bible is very clear in this question : God is in heaven. HEAVEN is the place/location where God resides. Jesus put it this way "Our Farther who art in heaven" or in modern English "Our Father who is in heaven"

• Is heaven located somewhere in our physical universe ? No, scripture indicates there is no physical location that can contain the Almighty. GOD is a spirit and resides (or lives) in a spiritual dimension.

• Does that mean God is everywhere (including inside our bodies/hearts)? No, God does not live anywhere in the physical realm.

• Does God live alone? No. Presently the bible indicates God is not alone , He lives with the resurrected Jesus Christ, his son as well as millions (possibly billions) of other spirits like himself (called angels).

• Does everyone go to live in heaven when they die? No. Only a few humans have been selected to be resurrected as spirits to go to heaven when they die. This is for the specific reason of ruling with Christ in a government located in heaven. They will be ruling OVER the planet earth. This rulership is called in the bible The Kingdom/the Kingdom of God or "The kingdom of heaven".

RELATED POSTS

In what sense will God "dwell" (tent) with humans?
viewtopic.php?p=1060794#p1060794

FURTHER READING What is God's Kingdom?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... s-kingdom/

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM , HEAVEN and ... THE 144, 000

[JehovahsWitness]

.

LUKE 17:21

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

What did Jesus really mean? And can this verse be properly translated alternatively?

The Greek word rendered "within" in the verse above is ENTOS (Strongs #1787) and interestingly the BDAG indicates this wword can mean either "inside" or "among".


Given that the word can be used to speak of that which is "within/inside" (indicating the interior of the person) or "amongst" (indicating external to the individual), how can we accurately determine what Jesus really meant?

CONTEXT IS KING

A look at the context of Jesus words give us sufficient indication that Jesus was not indicating that the kingdom was within those to whom he addressed the words. Jesus was at the time speaking to the PHARISSEES a group of religious leaders who opposed him and shared in arranging for his execution. Indeed Jesus has explicitly stated what, as a class, what was "within" these individuals, stating: “Inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. (Matthew 23:27, 28). How logical is it then to conclude that Jesus was telling those same individuals that the kingdom was within them?

An alternative reading that while the writer of Luke explicitly has Jesus addressing the Pharisees was actually speaking to believers in general makes for an awkward imposition at best and still has to deal with the contextual difficulties of the Kingdom being presented as and external power in numerous passages.


Various translations.

Logically then, various translators have chosen to opt for a word that allows for the reading that he (Jesus) as a representative of God's heavenly kingdom was in their midst. (compare Is 9:6).

New International Version
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in your midst."

New Living Translation
You won't be able to say, 'Here it is!' or 'It's over there!' For the Kingdom of God is already among you."

English Standard Version
nor will they say, Look, here it is! or There! for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you

Berean Study Bible
Nor will people say, 'Look, here it is,' or 'There it is.' For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

Berean Literal Bible
nor will they say, 'Behold here,' or 'There.' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

New American Standard Bible
nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
no one will say, 'Look here!' or 'There!' For you see, the kingdom of God is among you."

International Standard Version
People won't be saying, 'Look! Here it is!' or 'There it is!' because now the kingdom of God is among you."

NET Bible
nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

New American Standard 1977
nor will they say, Look, here it is! or, There it is For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.

King James 2000 Bible
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.

Darby Bible Translation
nor shall they say, Lo here, or, Lo there; for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.

WHAT is God's Kingdom?

This is also in line with the biblical features of the kingdom that indicate that rather than being an internal experience, is presented as a an external reality, with a number of co-rulers (Rev 20:6), whose location, rather than being in the figurative organs of believers, is often refered to as being the kingdom of the heavens which will take action against other "kingdoms" comparable to that of the neo-Babylonians, the Grecians and the Romans ie. literal governmental powers (see Dan 2:44).

CONCLUSION: The context and biblical features of the kingdom lend to Jesus meaning that the Kingdom was indeed "among" or in the midst of his first century listeners in himself as its representative rather than that it was a psychological experience of believers.

RELATED POSTS

Why did most Christians reject the idea of God having a real government?
viewtopic.php?p=1138381#p1138381

To learn more please go to other posts related to

THE PLANET EARTH, .GOD'S KINGDOM and ... EVERLASTING LIFE

[2ndpillar2]

One of the most provocative and encouraging statements I have found in the Bible is this one:

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.” (John 14:12, NKJV)

For me, this means also that I should not put any limits on what I think I can or cannot do, or rather, what the Love, Power and Wisdom of God can do through me. I believe following Jesus is adventurous, do you also experience it this way?

It seems to mean that if you are not doing greater things, or even lesser things, then you apparently do not believe the Words that Yeshua has spoken and are separated from the Lord who is in heaven. You might want to do a personal introspection on your life and beliefs.

Yes, 2ndpillar2, thank you for responding, and I believe indeed that we should all be active, guided by the Voice for God. We cannot really get around the statement, “By their fruits, you shall know them.” I am always grateful when I can be a channel for the Grace of God to reach my brothers. Hallelujah!

I think "by their fruits, you shall know them" is in referral to the trees of the "false prophets" (Mt 7:13-28), whereas the "fruit trees" the source of the good and bad fruit, would refer to the assemblies following the "false prophets", the most notable being the "Christians" following the false gospel of grace of the false prophet Paul, and the Muslim's following the false prophet Mohammad, whereas the bad fruit being displayed often by both assemblies. Whereas the bad fruit of individuals, could be likened to the tares of those who "commit lawlessness", those who follow the false gospel of the cross, whereas the "Law" is nailed to the cross, who are destined to "the furnace of fire" (Mt 13) versus those who do righteousness and will shine as the sun once the "tares" are "first" gathered and thrown into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:30), which is the "Great tribulation" (Har-Magedon), which is near. Often those who follow voices, are called mass killers. One must be able discern one voice from another, which is good reason to have the Law, the Commandments, and be skeptical of so-called prophets, and experts.

Well, that sounds a bit grim. My understanding of this statement, “by their fruits, you shall know them”, is that those who open up for God’s Grace to move through them, will be involved in healing, teaching, or in general, in service to the Kingdom of God. And those fruits, for which all the credit should be given to our Heavenly Father, are something for which they are known then. And I believe that it is only Grace which we are receiving. Saved by Grace through faith.

About Paul being a false prophet, are you referring to the Biblical apostle Paul?

I suggest that you re read Matthew 13:15-22, whereas the "many" are deceived by the "false prophets", leading to "destruction", and that you will know "them" by their "fruits". Even so every good tree produces good fruit; but the rotten tree bears bad fruit. On "that day", they will say to me Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons , and in your name perform many miracles? And I will declare to them, I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS (as in follow the false gospel of the cross, whereas the law is nailed to the cross). Sounds like a description of the false prophet Paul.

The false prophet Paul teaches to call on the name of the Lord, which is taken from Joel 2, whereas one was to call on the name of the LORD, not the Lord, in order to "survive"/"be delivered" from the coming day of the LORD, which is Har-Magedon (Rev 16), which is the Great Tribulation (Mt 24). As examples of rotten fruits, look at the Inquisition by the Roman mother Church, the killings of Protestants by Catholics, and even the killing of Catholics by Protestants. Look at the particular rotten fruits of the Catholic church with respect to Biden, Pelosi, Stalin, etc. As for the "kingdom", that is not the message of the false prophet Paul. His message was one of lawlessness, to nail the law to the cross. The message of Yeshua was the "kingdom". If you want to know about the kingdom, start with Matthew 13:13 and finish out the chapter. It involves two messages, one of the "devil" and his message was one "commit lawlessness", which ends with the "furnace of fire". The other message was that from the "son of man", which was to do righteousness. Which is to keep the Law.

Please wait a moment. I know that there are many people who hear strange things in their minds and then claim to represent the Kingdom of God when they verbalize those things. Many of these people can certainly be called false prophets, yes. Yet you keep talking about “the false prophet Paul” and I asked, “Do you mean the apostle Paul?” I don’t want to have any misunderstandings about what you are saying. Can you please respond to this question?

I am talking about the guy who claims to be a Pharisee of Pharisees, yet a Gentile to the Gentiles. Who says to call on the "Lord" to be saved, and who supposedly cast out a demon per the "Christian" narrative whereas Paul revived a guy who fell out of a window, and was said to have raised the dead, and supposedly healed the sick. That would be the same characterization given by Yeshua to those who cried "Lord, Lord", cast out demons, and in your name did "many miracles", yet Yeshua would say to them, "I never knew you, "DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS (gospel of grace/cross). Paul would be 1 of three "shepherds" chosen by the "LORD", two to shepherd the "flock (Christian church) doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11). Peter, the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:17) to be the second "staff" to lead the "flock" (Christain church), whereas the 3rd shepherd being Judas Iscariot, who sold his soul for 30 shekels of silver (Zech 11:12). Paul, which means "small/little", or in the vernacular of Paul, the "foremost" over everything, including "sinner", was originally named Saul. Paul (least (foremost of little)) would be what those of the kingdom would call the purveyor of lawlessness, as in the foremost of little, being "least" (Matthew 4:17-19). Paul would be the "false prophet" of Revelation 16, along with the "beast" and "devil", whose demon spirits would arise and lead the rulers/kings of the nations/Gentiles to Har-Magedon (area of the great tribulation), which is historically located between Damascus and Jerusalem, the place of where the terrorist supported by Iran are located today, and where the Ottomans under German leadership, were defeated in 1917, to open up the opportunity for the Zionist to enter into Judea, eventually bringing about the state of Israel in 1948. The state of Israel is a keyway into the era of the "Kingdom of God" whereas Judah and Ephraim/Joseph will be reunited on the land given to Jacob/Israel, under the leadership of king David (Ezekiel 36 & 37).

This is getting really convoluted, I must say. Now we are already talking about terrorists in Iran. For the third time, can you please let me know, do you mean the apostle Paul? Yes or no? You don’t owe me an explanation, but I am not going to respond anymore if this simple question is not answered.

Whatever you decide to do with this, Merry Christmas and God bless!

The Paul I am referring to is the guy who self-proclaims to be an "apostle of Jesus Christ", which according to Yeshua, that would make that claim false. Now with regards to Zechariah 11, this Paul guy is referred to as a "shepherd" chosen by the "LORD" to "pasture the flock (Christian Church) doomed to slaughter", and who with his compatriots, is responsible for around 2/3 of canonized NT, canonized by a bishop of the Roman Catholic church" in the year 367 A.D.

[ThijsH]

I do not know why you mention “feeling in your heart,” I certainly didn’t mention that. ...

I do not know why you mention “geographical location” I certainly didn’t mention that.

Okay, JehovahsWitness, for me “place” is synonymous with geographical location. Let’s not get stuck in the semantics here.

I don’t know if this exchange is going anywhere at the moment, but I would really like to find some common ground. So besides the things discussed, I would just like to ask you something personal.

Do you also, just like me, have moments when you are just happy to know that God loves you? That this thought alone brings a smile to your face, and makes you happy, regardless of the circumstance?

Please let me know. God bless you, and Merry Christmas to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

... I would just like to ask you something personal. Do you also, just like me, have moments when you are just happy to know that God loves you? ....

Please let me know. God bless you, and Merry Christmas to you.

I don't come to debate forums to answer personal questions. However the webmaster has kindly provided subforum were discussions can freely be held free of biblical, theological or scriptural reference.

I don't celebrate Christmas but wish you as very wonderful and love-filled day with your family and friends.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS