YAHWEH creates evil, then drowns creation for it!

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

.
.
.


"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and I create evil, I the LORD do all these things." ( Isaiah 45:7)

"Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6)

The reason that the Hebrew Christian Yahweh god, of which is one of many gods in the Before Common Era, decides to drown the entire world accept Noah and family, is because his creation are evil and unworthy of existence (Genesis 6:5). The irony is that Yahweh created evil in the first place as shown above in the passages in question. Yahweh is also omniscient (1 John 3:20) , therefore he knew his creation would falter and he would have to kill them, therefore Christians and Jews worship a god that is Schizophrenic!

"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." (Genesis 6:5-7)

Christians, can an innocent zygote or fetus ever be evil enough where they need to be destroyed within their mothers womb in the Great Flood, as your Yahweh caused abortions in this instance? Can an innocent baby really be evil where they need to die a horrible death by hopelessly treading water in Yahwehs flood for hours as they cry out in horror to their mothers; as their muscles burned due to large amounts of lactic acid production. Where once they finally give up, they went under, and held their breaths, where acidic carbon dioxide eroded their lungs until the unbearable pain forced them to inhale where there was no air for them to breathe. All the while, the ever loving and forgiving Yahweh god is watching.

Then the water brought into their little lungs robbed their little bodies of oxygen, causing them to go numb. As water violently rushed in and out of their little chests, it finally laid their heavily breathing and slowly dying bodies to the bottom of the ocean as the inhaled water caused their lungs to tear and bleed profusely. All the while, the ever loving and forgiving Yahweh god is watching.

As their blood supply dwindled, their innocent hearts slowly came to a halt. Even so, their brains continued to process information for another couple of minutes. They were patently aware that death was imminent, yet they could do nothing to prevent it. We can only imagine that their final thoughts would have been on what they did to deserve such horrific treatment and death. All the while, the ever loving and forgiving Yahweh god is watching.


When Christians understand why you dismiss all the other gods in the Before Common Era, then you will understand why I dismiss yours.

[ttruscott]

... lets create a thread regarding Noah's Ark, which is part and parcel to your ever loving and forgiving Yahweh god killing his creation.

Noah's Ark is part and parcel to our ever loving and forgiving Yahweh GOD JUDGING his creation for their crimes. Are you suggesting that the one who has the power and duty to judge evil not do so or have you successfully but secretly proven that those who died were in fact innocent of the alleged crimes?

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 1 by 21stCenturyIconoclast]

Have you compared the verse with other translations and versions to get a better idea of what is being said?

The Hebrew word for evil is ra, it can also mean "envious," "bad," "ugly," "ungenerous," "gloomy," "malignant," or, in the case you mention, "calamitous." (Genesis 2:9; 40:7; 41:3; Exodus 33:4; Deuteronomy 6:22; 28:35; Proverbs 23:6; 28:22)

Jehovah God created "calamity" through justice. Consider a child, who's parents have forbidden him to play in the busy street. To the child this is bad (Hebrew ra). But the parents know that for the child to disobey is bad, and could lead to calamity. If the child does disobey it could lead to two possible bad results. He could get hurt, even killed by traffic, or he could get caught and punished.

CEB uses "doom." AMP and ISV uses "disaster." CJB uses "woe."CEV uses "sorrow." ESV uses "calamity."

This is a nice bit of transparent and ineffective sophistry. However you want to translate the words, the claim in Genesis is that God made man and the other animals and called them 'good.' Then he repented of his creation. He did not offer correction. He responded with total annihilation.

Since we know there were many morally bad things at the time HE pronounced everything HE created to be good, it is obvious that this good did not carry a moral connotation but was pronounced to be good for the purposes HE created, that is, the redemption of HIS sinful elect by their being sown into this world to live with the tares.

[ttruscott]

.

This is a nice bit of transparent and ineffective sophistry.

I appreciate the creativity of word games / re-definitions / word salads used by Apologists to extricate themselves from the corner that their own literature paints them into.

Their God supposedly said "I create evil" according to many common-use Bibles. However, when opponents point that out the response is "Well he really didn't say (or mean) evil, he meant _________" (fill in the blank with a different word).

And yet you yourself use this same technique except in the reverse direction to make your anti-GOD point. We claim it means disaster and you go all backward and out of context (GOD is good.) and claim it means moral evil and that to stand against your pov is to be creative with word salad...

Such "did too" rebuttal is unworthy, no more than an extended one-liner. If you would show us your proof that GOD meant us to read that He creates moral evil when the rest of the bible claims HE DOES NOT then you are contributing something.

[ttruscott]

.

To an extent, this is true, and suggests there were no practical alternatives.

Is this to say that a supposedly all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect God could not come up with an alternative to killing all humans and animals except a few on an ark?

Why would HE need an alternative? HIS message to those of the end times that HE is the Judge of the whole world and can save anyone from the destruction of the judgment of the whole world worked just fine.

Being an irreverent sort, I suggest that if God couldn't figure out a less draconian way to combat evil or Satan he should have consulted Non-Theists who could suggest ways to use divine magic to solve the problem. His supposed solution didn't work anyway since evil still is rampant.

It was not a solution at all but a prophecy. Making a wrong assumption about HIS motives does not prove HIS actions to be be a failure...gigo.

[ttruscott]

If your analogy has any meaning, then you are comparing the sophistication of Adam with that of a child. Thus God left artless people in Eden with a dangerous Tree, not to mention a serpent in the background. And God did not see that this was bad?

Artless? They were artful enough to be given the job of being GOD's gardener and sophisticated enough to have doctrinal discussions about the meaning of life and death and how that is impacted by our actions...

And having their eyes opened to their sinfulness (which they had before they ate) is the greatest blessing in the life of any sinful elect as it brings them to repentance and redemption, the purpose of life on earth, so how can it be called dangerous?

[Zzyzx]

.

Why would HE need an alternative? HIS message to those of the end times that HE is the Judge of the whole world and can save anyone from the destruction of the judgment of the whole world worked just fine.

Of course a proposed bully God who is violent, hostile, angry, vindictive does NOT need alternatives " if the intent is to frighten people into falling to their knees and worshiping him to avoid being killed (or punished after you die).

It would seem, however, if the God was actually benevolent, loving, just (as some attempt to claim), it would WANT an alternative to wiping out animal life on Earth (except those on a cruise).

Being an irreverent sort, I suggest that if God couldn't figure out a less draconian way to combat evil or Satan he should have consulted Non-Theists who could suggest ways to use divine magic to solve the problem. His supposed solution didn't work anyway since evil still is rampant.

It was not a solution at all but a prophecy.

I see. Now the God didn't intend to solve wickedness (other than temporarily) but intended the event as a prophesy.

Where does this stuff come from? Does the Bible SAY that the flood was a prophesy or did someone just make up that notion from their imagination?

Making a wrong assumption about HIS motives does not prove HIS actions to be be a failure...gigo.

Genesis is quite clear about God's motives " killing wicked people. Perhaps it didn't know that the righteous family saved would produce wicked offspring.

[Wootah]

The "spin doctoring" has begun! Incredible how Christians love to rewrite their Yahweh's word to be acceptable to today's acceptances and morals.

Moderator Warning

Hi 21stCenturyIconoclast,

Please just use the site to debate and don't accuse others of spin doctoring.

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

... lets create a thread regarding Noah's Ark, which is part and parcel to your ever loving and forgiving Yahweh god killing his creation.

Noah's Ark is part and parcel to our ever loving and forgiving Yahweh GOD JUDGING his creation for their crimes. Are you suggesting that the one who has the power and duty to judge evil not do so or have you successfully but secretly proven that those who died were in fact innocent of the alleged crimes?

ttruscott,

You were kidding us on your ungodly refutation, right? Please say you were, okay?

YOUR QUOTE: "Noah's Ark is part and parcel to our ever loving and forgiving Yahweh GOD JUDGING his creation for their crimes."

Correct me if I am wrong with your Christian perspective here, so you're saying that Yahweh can kill innocent zygotes, fetus,' and babies that had absolutely nothing to do with any crimes against your brutal god concept, and in your eyes, this is okay?


YOUR QUOTE: "Are you suggesting that the one who has the power and duty to judge evil not do so or have you successfully but secretly proven that those who died were in fact innocent of the alleged crimes?"

Only when you can tell me in a godly loving and forgiving manner that zygotes, fetus', and babies that do not know from right or wrong are guilty of said crimes against your Hebrew Christian god named Yahweh!


I get it ttruscott, you're as a parody pseudo-christian pushing the envelope of this faith to make others upset by showing what Christianity can do to a person! You almost fooled me, good one!


When Christians understand why you dismiss all the other gods in the Before Common Era, then you will understand why I dismiss yours.

_________________________________

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

[Replying to post 1 by 21stCenturyIconoclast]

Have you compared the verse with other translations and versions to get a better idea of what is being said?

The Hebrew word for evil is ra, it can also mean "envious," "bad," "ugly," "ungenerous," "gloomy," "malignant," or, in the case you mention, "calamitous." (Genesis 2:9; 40:7; 41:3; Exodus 33:4; Deuteronomy 6:22; 28:35; Proverbs 23:6; 28:22)

Jehovah God created "calamity" through justice. Consider a child, who's parents have forbidden him to play in the busy street. To the child this is bad (Hebrew ra). But the parents know that for the child to disobey is bad, and could lead to calamity. If the child does disobey it could lead to two possible bad results. He could get hurt, even killed by traffic, or he could get caught and punished.

CEB uses "doom." AMP and ISV uses "disaster." CJB uses "woe."CEV uses "sorrow." ESV uses "calamity."

This is a nice bit of transparent and ineffective sophistry. However you want to translate the words, the claim in Genesis is that God made man and the other animals and called them 'good.' Then he repented of his creation. He did not offer correction. He responded with total annihilation.

Since we know there were many morally bad things at the time HE pronounced everything HE created to be good, it is obvious that this good did not carry a moral connotation but was pronounced to be good for the purposes HE created, that is, the redemption of HIS sinful elect by their being sown into this world to live with the tares.

ttruscott,

YOUR QUOTE: "Since we know there were many morally bad things at the time HE pronounced everything HE created to be good, it is obvious that this good did not carry a moral connotation but was pronounced to be good for the purposes HE created, that is, the redemption of HIS sinful elect by their being sown into this world to live with the tares."

Huh? Your concept runs into a brick wall when Yahweh is omniscient! Therefore, he knew first hand that his creation was going to screw up in the future where he would have to drown them because Eve transgressed by committing the original sin (1 Timothy 2:14). Wow, with this modus operandi of Yahweh, what is this called, oh yeah, Yahweh was schizophrenic to say the least!

Yahweh is omniscient, therefore He knows EVERYTHING (1 John 3:20). He knows not only the minutest details of Christians lives but those of everything around you, for He mentions even knowing when a sparrow falls or when Christians lose a single hair (Matthew 10:29-30). Not only does your Yahweh know everything that will occur with you until the end of history itself (Isaiah 46:9-10), but He also knows your very thoughts, even before you speak forth (Psalm 139:4).

He knows your hearts from afar; He even saw the Christian in the womb (Psalm 139:1-3, 15-16), and being omniscient, He knew what you were going to do before time had presented itself! Solomon expresses this truth perfectly when he says, For you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind (1 Kings 8:39).

With as much respect that I can give you, how far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go to defend your serial killer god in his enactment of the Great Flood?


When Christians understand why you dismiss all the other gods in the Before Common Era, then you will understand why I dismiss yours.

________________________________________

[PghPanther]

[Replying to 21stCenturyIconoclast]

Pretty intense description there......but well stated.

The simple fact is this. The people writing all this stuff down never thought they'd be scrutinized for what they wrote centuries later because what the claimed to be the actions of a God aren't very well thought out.

Also, the Bible being a canon of manuscripts is something the writers had no idea of ever happening so you will have one writers idea of the nature of God being different or in contrast with another writer in a different period of time and Christians over the centuries pulling their hair out of their heads in councils and arguments over how to get a synergy out of all of this.

Marco brought up a good point of a God changing its mind........there is a story in the old testament where Moses debated with God and convinced him not to destroy the children of Israel after they disobeyed him for the umpteenth time.......

A man argues and debates with God and wins??