When Exactly Did Jesus Become The Son of God?

[RedEye]

There seems to be a massive conflict between the gospel authors as to when precisely Jesus attained the status of "Son of God".

The gospel of Mark has Jesus becoming Son of God upon his baptism:

• Mark 1
  9 At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.� 12 At once the Spirit sent him out into the wilderness,

In this version the human-born Jesus is a victim of body invasion and his brain is taken over by the Spirit of God. (So much for human free will). The gospel of Matthew echoes this view.

Then we have Paul who has Jesus becoming the Son of God only after his resurrection:

• Romans 1
  1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2 the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3 regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, 4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

Next we have the gospel of Luke which has Jesus being appointed as the Son of God at his birth:

• Luke 1
  35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Finally, we have the gospel of John which has Jesus as the Son of God right from the very beginning of everything:

• John 1
  1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
  ...
  14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So there we have four wildly conflicting versions of when Jesus attained the status of being the Son of God in the New Testament. They can't all be correct. So, if you are a Christian, which of these "divinely inspired" writers is correct and how did the others get it so badly wrong?

[JehovahsWitness]

Do you just disown the gospel of John?

No we (Jehovah's Witnesses) accept the entire bible as the word of God, we just interpret it differently from mainstream Christians.




JW





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[RedEye]

[Replying to post 36 by RedEye]

Fair enough. I've already provided the Jehovah's Witness take on this
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 041#946041

NOTE Jehovah's Witnesses are not trinitarians.

Yes, that rings a bell. You must have all sorts of problems with John 1:1-14 I imagine. From memory you guys consider Jesus/Logos to be an angel. It still doesn't help you much since John 1 explicitly tells us "and the Word was God". Do you just disown the gospel of John?

Having checked the JW's NWT, it says the 'Word was a god' lower case g.

I have to admit that this is probably not a bad translation from the Greek although it implies polytheism which I am sure that the author of John would have rejected. I wonder what they did with John 10:30 "I and the Father are one�. I don't think that the NWT is trustworthy on JW doctrinal issues where The Watch Tower wants to impose on the original Greek. Those passages which express or imply the deity of Jesus Christ represent one of these doctrinal issues.

[1213]

I have already explained that this is just metaphor.

Please explain, why should I think you are correct?

How can Jesus/God possibly be tested? It makes no sense.

By what the Bible tells, Jesus is not the God. God is greater than Jesus and there is only one true God in Bible.

And I am not sure of this, but Jesus could be tested like gold. Similarly, as in this:

Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been put to grief in various trials, that the proof of your faith, which is more precious than gold that perishes even though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:7

But it is funny that you teach here how things should be understood and still say you don’t understand.

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't think that the NWT is trustworthy on JW doctrinal issues where The Watch Tower wants to impose on the original Greek.

Are you suggesting you are capable of producing a passage of the bible where the New World Translation does not adequately reflect the original Greek language?





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[RedEye]

I have already explained that this is just metaphor.

Please explain, why should I think you are correct?

Um, because you agree that we humans are not the literal progeny of God?

How can Jesus/God possibly be tested? It makes no sense.

By what the Bible tells, Jesus is not the God. God is greater than Jesus and there is only one true God in Bible.

Read John 1:1-14 carefully.

[RedEye]

I don't think that the NWT is trustworthy on JW doctrinal issues where The Watch Tower wants to impose on the original Greek.

Are you suggesting you are capable of producing a passage of the bible where the New World Translation does not adequately reflect the original Greek language?

Easily. Almost everywhere where the word Jehovah is used in the NT (237 times). But we are off-topic again.

[JehovahsWitness]

INDEX The Divine Name in the "New Testament"

[Replying to post 46 by RedEye]

• You couldn't be more wrong, I'll post you some links from my earlier posts to some of what I have already written on this topic and we will leave it at that.

JW




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LEARN MORE : Video Lectures:

Geoffrey W. Jackson: “Father, Glorify Your Name (The Divine Name in the Christian Scriptures)
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Report: An Ancient Manuscript Supports God’s Name ( documented evidence)
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[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

When exactly did Jesus become the son of God?

Right when Joseph said, "You said you're a virgin!?"

[1213]

Um, because you agree that we humans are not the literal progeny of God?

Humans are not biologically progeny, but some can be spiritually progeny of God.

Read John 1:1-14 carefully.

John says also:
This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

And according to John, Jesus says:
…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

So, I don’t think it is correct interpretation of John 1:1-14 to say that Jesus is the one and only true God.

I believe God created through Jesus, Jesus was used as a tool in the creation. And because Jesus did God’s work, he represented God on earth and therefore it can be said, he was God on earth. Jesus is like ambassador of God, he acts in the name of God and therefore it can be said he is God, all though he is not himself the one and only true God, only His representative, or image, as the Bible tells:

in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him were all things created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.
Colossians 1:14-16

Same is with disciples of Jesus. If I am a disciple of Jesus, and you receive me, you receive Jesus, and if you receive Jesus, you receive God.

Most assuredly I tell you, he who receives whomever I send, receives me; and he who receives me, receives him who sent me."
John 13:20

This doesn’t mean that I am the one and only true God. This means, I speak in their name, if I speak their message.

My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me.
John 7:16

[RedEye]

Um, because you agree that we humans are not the literal progeny of God?

Humans are not biologically progeny, but some can be spiritually progeny of God.

I don't know what "spiritual progeny" is. "Spiritual" is a word with no well-defined meaning in the real world. I can only think that you agree with me that it is merely a metaphor as I have said all along.

Read John 1:1-14 carefully.

John says also: ...

What John says somewhere else does not erase what he said in John 1:1-14. Identifying possible contradictory passages in an author's text does nothing to address the substance of what is written in the passage I have cited. Unless you are claiming that the author was prone to lying?