Is God always justified in his actions?

[nobspeople]

Of course this is based on personal opinion (some of you may not like that), but is all of God's more 'negative' decisions made in the bible justified? I'm sure all Christians would say YES, while non-Christians may be mixed in their responses.

For those that say YES, God's more 'negative' actions (drowning most of the life on the planet, drowning Pharoah and his army when they crossed after Moses (God likes to drown, it seems - weird), killing of Egypt's first born, allowing Job to be tortured to prove a point when he already knew how faithful he was, etc), are you saying YES because he is God and can do no wrong (in other words, you question his motives based on your understanding but stand behind him nonetheless) or do you believe, 100%, he was right in his actions?
Can you provide reference as to why and how he was 100% justified?

[tam]

Peace to you!

Of course this is based on personal opinion (some of you may not like that), but is all of God's more 'negative' decisions made in the bible justified? I'm sure all Christians would say YES, while non-Christians may be mixed in their responses.

For those that say YES, God's more 'negative' actions (drowning most of the life on the planet, drowning Pharoah and his army when they crossed after Moses (God likes to drown, it seems - weird), killing of Egypt's first born, allowing Job to be tortured to prove a point when he already knew how faithful he was, etc), are you saying YES because he is God and can do no wrong (in other words, you question his motives based on your understanding but stand behind him nonetheless) or do you believe, 100%, he was right in his actions?
Can you provide reference as to why and how he was 100% justified?

Yes, I believe 100% that he was right in His actions. Even if I don't know the actual reason for an action, I do know that God acts out of love, and for life. I know this because that is who Christ is, that is the God whom Christ shows.

So some examples:

The flood

The nephilim and their offspring were on the earth and corrupting the earth. We have occasional sociopaths now, but think a world filled with sociopaths, evil, corrupt, corrupting and caring nothing for mankind or life. God sent the flood to put an end to them, and to protect life, to protect the 'seed' (Christ, the line though which He was to come, Israel, and the children Christ purchased for God).

He provided an escape from the flood (the ark), and had anyone other than Noah had faith in Him (to hear and obey), more could have been saved. The people who died in the flood - including their children - will receive a resurrection (and depending upon their deeds, that will be a resurrection to life or a resurrection to judgment and the second death).

I might not understand everything about that, but I do understand that the flood was necessary, to protect life, to protect the seed, to prevent the great harm that would have befallen the earth, mankind, life - if not for God intervening.



Pharaoh and his army

Pharaoh and his army were pursuing Israel, to enslave them, continue harming them, prevent them from coming to God, killing their children. They just had ten plagues (increasing in severity by the end), so it is not even like they did not have fair warning. That event was God protecting Israel (again, from love for Israel, whom His covenant was with). And while God parted the waters for Israel to pass through, why in the world would/should He have kept the waters parted for Pharaoh and his army so that they could pass through and harm Israel?

Regardless, this was done to protect Israel.


I'll try and respond to the Job part on your Job thread at some point.


But even if a person cannot understand the reason, one can always look to Christ to know His Father, the nature and desire of His Father. And Christ LOVES His Father. That was one of the first things that opened my eyes. Christ - who is wisdom, and truth, and who is merciful and who gave His life for us, loves His Father and is loved BY His Father - and Christ is the image, the perfect reflection of His Father.

Yes, the Father is also the Judge, and yes, some of those decisions are going to seem tough to us, but they are always done out of love (especially for His Son and extending to those who love His Son, and who have been purchased by Christ for God, to be children of God as well)... and for life, and in keeping with His plan. We might not see how all things turn out, but God already knows.


That is probably enough of a response to start.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[brunumb]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Although there are no definitively known justifications for those actions, Christians will defend them because they were carried out by God. On the other hand, if we truly cannot find those actions to be justifiable, then we should conclude that they were not the actions of God. They make more sense as fictional accounts meant to impress, intimidate and keep the faithful in line.

[Miles]

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In as much as he's made a couple of self-admitted mistakes, I doubt even he would say they were justified---other than because of his ignorance. So the answer is "No, god is not always justified in his actions."


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[nobspeople]

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In as much as he's made a couple of self-admitted mistakes, I doubt even he would say they were justified---other than because of his ignorance. So the answer is "No, god is not always justified in his actions."


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I was always told 'God makes no mistakes'. Can you provide evidence of these mistakes?
Also, where can you point to his ignorance?

[Miles]

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In as much as he's made a couple of self-admitted mistakes, I doubt even he would say they were justified---other than because of his ignorance. So the answer is "No, god is not always justified in his actions."


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I was always told 'God makes no mistakes'. Can you provide evidence of these mistakes?

When one regrets or is sorry for what he does, that doing would have been a mistake: He should not have done it.


Genesis 6:6
And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.

1 Samuel 15:35
Even though Samuel felt sad about Saul, Samuel never saw him again. The Lord was sorry he had made Saul the king of Israel.

Also, where can you point to his ignorance?

Being omnipotent, god should know the consequences of everything he does, and in actions I've cited above it's obvious he was ignorant their consequences.


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[Purple Knight]

Can you provide reference as to why and how he was 100% justified?

It's definitional and purely logical. God (the character in the Bible) is always right, because in the Bible, good literally comes from God and has no meaning without God. If the Bible is fictional then this is simply fact. This is the way the story was written so it's canon. Whether it's good fiction or not is another story.

Now, if there really is some omnipotent being called God, and it can literally do anything, then one of the things it can do is snap its fingers and apply the "good, moral" quality to any of its actions. If it can't do that then it can't do anything and it's not all-powerful.

So if it's all stories, then yes, God is always justified. And if it's real, God is always justified.

are you saying YES because he is God and can do no wrong

That's exactly what I'm saying and I have no evidence that anything works differently in the human world either. The most moral people are moral by definition, and anything they do will be right and justified, while evil people are evil and will never be able to overcome their innate malicious motives. An evil person can do the most good thing in the world, but since he's evil, his motive for doing that is selfish. He is trying to selfishly make himself good for the benefit of himself, because he wants to be good.

[JoeyKnothead]

Is God always justified in his actions?

I don't know much about the justified, but I have a responsibility to myself that where I see 'evil', I condemn it, and don't stop to fuss if it was a god's doings, or not.

I've yet to find a valid 'justification' for flooding an entire planet, other'n to teach folks how to either swim, or to float. That's about the most evil act I've ever heard tell of.

Even if none can show the tale is true, it's just a horrible thing to even plot on doing.

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't believe God has ever performed any "negative actions" and I personally see no need to "question his motives". To answer (the unloaded part of ) your question, namely : do you believe, 100%, [God] was right in his actions? My answer is YES absolutely!

Drowning Pharoah and his army when they crossed after Moses ... Can you provide reference as to why and how he was 100% justified?



This was an act of self-defense. Pharaoh gathered his army to chase down the Israelites and it seems obvious they did not intend the encounter to be peaceful (see Exodus 14:7). They had been forcibly kept in slavery for generations and subjected to infanticide and hard labour (Exodus 1:15, 16) . They had every right to leave the country and when cornered, to fight for their freedom. When they could do nothing else they used the only "weapon" they had at their disposal, they called on their God (Exodus 14:10b). And God responded, showing remarkable restraint.

We note God did not have the people turn and attack the Egyptian army but simply cleared the way for them to continue their journey in peace. He miraculously parted the Red sea and, when he had finished, put it back where he found it. He was under no obligation to keep the way open for Pharoah and his army as well. Pharoah made the strategic error in not asking God if it was safe for him to proceed onto the dry ocean bed; turns out it wasn't. His death was his own stupid fault, since he should have known that water doesn't naturally stand upright in a solid mass unless it is frozen.



Pharoah and his army took a chance, it didn't pay off. Come to think of it, they pretty much killed themselves. When you jump into the ocean without a lifejacket knowing you cannot swim, you don't blame the water. Or the fish!





JW





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[JehovahsWitness]

... allowing Job to be tortured to prove a point when he already knew how faithful he was, etc.

Knowing how faithful someone is does not mean necessarily mean we know how faithful that person will be in the future. God expressed his confidence in Job but there is nothing in the text that confirms God knew for certain of Job's continued integrity under test.




JW




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