Can Christians offer a money-back guarantee?

[unknown soldier]

We've all heard the sales pitch in which a business offers a money-back guarantee to all unsatisfied buyers. The business will tell consumers that they're so confident that purchasers will be pleased with the product, that the business can offer that kind of guarantee. The logic is that if a seller is sure that the seller's product is worth the purchase price, then the buyers will be pleased with that product and will not ask for their money back.

I agree with that logic. If people are confident that what they have to offer will please those who accept the offer, then there is no need to fear that anything exchanged for the offer will be demanded back. They can readily guarantee satisfaction accepting the risk of loss.

Why, then, do Christians not offer a money-back guarantee to any disgruntled person who tithed and donated money to a Christian group or church? It seems reasonable to me that if Christians truly believe that their religion is actually founded on a perfect God, then they would be completely confident that all comers would be pleased.

Maybe the clergy wants to cover itself just in case.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to unknown soldier in post #32]

If God exists and is miserable, then that's his problem. He doesn't care if we're hurting.

And who wants to be a slave? I prefer freedom.

If God exists He created us and knows what is best for us.

If God exists He is omnipresent and knows everything that is going to happen to us and so knows what is best for us.

If God exists He has allowed every man the opportunity to choose whom he will follow.

Is the drug addict free? Is the alcoholic free? Are those that cannot stop committing crimes free? Freedom is the choice to choose. Those that are entangled in sin do not have the freedom to choose they bound and enslaved by their sin.

[unknown soldier]

If God exists He created us and knows what is best for us.

If God exists He is omnipresent and knows everything that is going to happen to us and so knows what is best for us.

Can you please explain how cancer, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions are best for us? I assume you are saying that God only knows what's best for us but doesn't grant us what's best for us. That's a very difficult issue to resolve if you're a Christian.

If you're an atheist, on the other hand, this issue is very easily resolved; there is no God to grant us what's best for us, and that's why we often suffer calamities.

If God exists He has allowed every man the opportunity to choose whom he will follow.

In addition to God, who else is running for ruler of the universe?

Is the drug addict free? Is the alcoholic free? Are those that cannot stop committing crimes free?

No. Any compulsion like drug or alcohol addiction hinders a person's freedom to choose to live free of such "chemical burdens." Religion is much like these addictions; it compels people to spend time in a boring room every Sunday listening to weird stories and giving their money away.

Freedom is the choice to choose.

Not only that, but freedom lets us choose the choice to choose and gives us the choice to choose the choice to choose and...

Those that are entangled in sin do not have the freedom to choose they bound and enslaved by their sin.

I like to sin, actually. I can choose to curse, swear, and look at porn any time I choose. Heck, I can even enjoy a ham sandwich! It's religion and all its dumb rules that drag me down.

[koko]

Peace to you!
...
(which water is holy spirit, poured out from the LIFE - Christ Jaheshua - as the Father has given to Him without end)
...
Peace again to you dear koko, and to your household,
your servant and a slave of Christ (Jaheshua),
tammy

Thank you for the kind words. But as well meant as they are, the biblical assurances you quote remain of no value unless and until this god backs up all those promises with action. As a literary scholar, I have read the Bible from cover to cover including every book, every chapter, every verse, every word, every punctuation mark. Thus, there is no real need for a repetition of these biblical quotes. The time has come for action to benefit me as it has worked for you and all others on this forum who have enjoyed their god's selectivity and special favors. If this god has no intention of fulfilling his promises and taking corrective action, then he should tell you not to bother quoting the Bible as the source for all action is him, not any one else. Note that my criticism is directed to him (assuming the biblical god actually exists) and not to anyone else. Bear in mind that in the Bible this god claims to be a loving father who treats his children like a human father. Except that no human father I know of shows favoritism towards a particular child and leaves the other children wallowing away in misery. The time to end that selectivity is NOW.

[koko]

Freedom is the choice to choose. Those that are entangled in sin do not have the freedom to choose they bound and enslaved by their sin.

As I have said on this and other threads, I have never known a day of good health in my life. I did not commit sin but have been sick since birth. I would like to have the freedom to be completely free of illness and poverty. It's time for this god to manfully make the promise "ask and ye shall receive" into a reality.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to unknown soldier in post #69]

I did not follow my Lord and serve Him and His Father because I wanted to 'get things' from them. I follow and serve my Lord (who served and loved me first), out of love for Him and God (who again, loved us first). He gave His life for me. He owes me nothing. I owe HIM.

That kind of blind allegiance to a god led to the events of September 11.

First: Man's actions (and lack of love toward his fellow man) led to the events of (and before) September 11... including man's false claims about what God wants.

But Christ (who reveals God to us as God truly is), taught that we are to love even our enemies (to bless those who curse us; to do good to those who persecute us). So perhaps you might take a glance back at the post about love being the law on the previous page (I addressed it to koko, but anyone can read it), and about who (and how) Christ teaches us to love.

Second: There is nothing blind about my allegiance to my Lord and to my God. And if I was ever told to do something like that (9-11), I would know that this is not from my Lord. Because my Lord has also taught me to TEST the inspired expressions. To hold all things up against the Light (Christ). And killing another person is against His commands as well as being against love.

And if Jesus ever really was crucified it had nothing to do with you.

And you know this how?

To say he died for you makes about as much sense as to say Socrates died for me.

That statement does not make sense. Did Socrates ever claim to have come to this world to give His life for many?

It's not hedging a bet. It is as Christ prayed.

My point is that the way you judge the efficacy of prayer, failures are indistinguishable from successes because you have from the outset built in a way to explain away failure.

I'm not judging anything. I know my Lord speaks the truth. I am just listening to Him and believing what He has said. If you (general you) are truly His disciple, and your faith is truly in Him, how can you not believe (or do) what He said?

Well, now - and I mean no offense - but what difference does it make if you see a reason for this or not?

It's called "common sense." A perfect God would not make us wait suffering when he knows full well we need and want things right away.

It seems more like making up a god of your own choosing, according to your own reasoning.

If you want to know who God is, then you must look to Christ - the Truth and Image of God.

(and I'm not sure I know pf any parent who gives their children everything they want, with no conditions or work attached; not if they expect those children to turn into mature and responsible adults)

How could I claim to have faith in my Lord, and then refuse to believe Him or accept what He has told me? He never forced me to follow Him or to be His disciple. He stated the cost up front (trouble, persecution, a cross, etc, in this world - though also peace in HIM here and now, as well as later). If I choose to follow Him, then I am accepting that those things come with that.

I don't see how any of this is addressing my point that if you really have received what you have prayed for, then I'm very puzzled why you're troubled in any way.

I didn't see that as your point, sorry. What you asked me is why don't I just "pray the trouble away".

If that were true, God would not have had a plan in place from the start, and sent His Son to give His life, so that we - sinful and imperfect beings - would be reconciled to Him and have life.

I have a better plan--just let people live in paradise from the start. And never hurt anybody for eating fruit especially when a snake I created talked them into it.

I think you might be deflecting the point that your claim (that God is intolerant of imperfect humans) is incorrect.

(And the one who ate the fruit is the one who caused the hurt... to himself, to the world that had been given him to govern, to his own offspring.)

All supposition then? No evidence?

That's correct. There is no evidence at all for where the funds in the common purse came from.

Actually, I posted a verse where it is said that women disciples were supporting them out of their own means. If you are claiming that does not count as evidence, then where is your evidence that they kept a common purse at all? Where is your evidence for any of your claims and accusations?





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

As I have said on this and other threads, I have never known a day of good health in my life. I did not commit sin but have been sick since birth. I would like to have the freedom to be completely free of illness and poverty. It's time for this god to manfully make the promise "ask and ye shall receive" into a reality.

I am sorry your life has presented you with such trials. That said many testify that one can have godly joy despite sickness and physical handicap. The Apostle Paul experienced many hardships in his life, including some kind of physical ailment which, despite his repeated requests, he was NOT cured of. Paul testified that he continued to live his life with joy conscious of why he suffered. Many like Paul are appreciative of Gods many blesings despite their painful circumstances.



JW


INTERVIEWS & TESTIMONIES




DEBILITATING DISEASES / TERMINAL ILLNESSES

Be a Courageous . . . Marriage Mate [stroke victim]
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 5_13_VIDEO

Isolated but Not Forgotten [TETRAPLEGIC- STROKE VICTIM - ALS]
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 03_1_VIDEO

Tumor/Heart problems
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 05_7_VIDEO

Izak and Jean Marais: Opportunities to Show Our Faith in Jehovah [cancer]
https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/VODInt ... 03_1_VIDEO

Phelicity Sneesby: Jehovah Is More Powerful Than My Health Problem [congenital heart disease]
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 02_1_VIDEO

AM 2016 Part 2— Interview Bethel Doctors
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 10_2_VIDEO

When a spouse is sick
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... ial-needs/


MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES


Mental Health Problems Robert and Jordan Williams: Dealing With Anxiety Day by Day
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 05_4_VIDEO

Steing Dott: Jehovah Cared for Me [ADHD/Tourette syndrome]
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 05_6_VIDEO

Jayden Schreiber: Finding a New Path With Autism
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 10_1_VIDEO

BLINDNESS

Talita Alnashi: “The Eyes of the Blind Will Be Opened”
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 05_3_VIDEO

Living by Touch: James Ryan - blind and Deaf
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 15_1_VIDEO

Jose Luis Ayala: This Is My Hope - blind and Deaf
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 04_2_VIDEO

IMPAIRED MOBILITY

John Foster: Doing the Very Best I Can [Impaired Mobility]
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 04_3_VIDEO

Steve Gerdes: We Will Never Forget the Greeting [wheelchair bound]
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 01_1_VIDEO

Enduring Despite . . .[ having no arms]
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 05_3_VIDEO

Sabina Hernández: With Jehovah, I Can Do Almost Anything.[No arms or legs]
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 12_1_VIDEO

To learn more go to other posts related to

SICKNESS , DEATH, and ...THE MIRACLES OF JESUS CHRIST

[Clownboat]

If God exists He created us and knows what is best for us.

If God exists He is omnipresent and knows everything that is going to happen to us and so knows what is best for us.

If God exists He has allowed every man the opportunity to choose whom he will follow.

Is the drug addict free? Is the alcoholic free? Are those that cannot stop committing crimes free? Freedom is the choice to choose. Those that are entangled in sin do not have the freedom to choose they bound and enslaved by their sin.

I'm not sure that I agree with your conclusions, but before we can know if they might have any merit, can you show that the initial suggested premise is anything more than the imaginings of humans?

I ask because:
If Superman exists, then he can fly.
If Superman exists he is faster than a speeding bullet.

Is there a reason to speculate about the existence of Superman (beyond entertainment)? If not, then no need to waste any energy wondering about the musings of Superman. The gods would be in the same boat don't you think? Why should we muse about the gods, or is it that we should forget all the other god concepts and only muse over one? That would seem awfully self serving.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to koko in post #74]

As I have said on this and other threads, I have never known a day of good health in my life. I did not commit sin but have been sick since birth. I would like to have the freedom to be completely free of illness and poverty. It's time for this god to manfully make the promise "ask and ye shall receive" into a reality.

There are millions of people that are free from illness and poverty and still going to hell. It is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Many Christians today are beaten and become very poor simply because they are a Christian. This world is not our reward a Christian's reward is in heaven. You are asking the wrong God to give you material blessings here on Earth.

[koko]

There are millions of people that are free from illness and poverty and still going to hell. It is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Many Christians today are beaten and become very poor simply because they are a Christian. This world is not our reward a Christian's reward is in heaven. You are asking the wrong God to give you material blessings here on Earth.

Read Mark 10:30 and learn that a 100 fold material reward is guaranteed. Complete opposite of what you are saying.

[koko]

I am sorry your life has presented you with such trials. That said many testify that one can have godly joy despite sickness and physical handicap. The Apostle Paul experienced many hardships in his life, including some kind of physical ailment which, despite his repeated requests, he was NOT cured of. Paul testified that he continued to live his life with joy conscious of why he suffered. Many like Paul are appreciative of Gods many blesings despite their painful circumstances.

JW

Different people have different capacities. Some can take hot weather, others cannot. Some can take cold weather, others cannot. I, for one, am incapable of withstanding pain or illnesses. Had I been given the capacity to withstand such problems, then maybe I would have said OK to it all. Paul chose to remain sick as,


11 God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.


Cloths that he touched could heal anyone. But he clearly chose not to be healed. I'd like to have one such cloth and to be rid of all illness as any sickness or whatever has never done me a bit of good.