Is the Second Coming of Jesus a Hoax?

[Rational Atheist]

For debate:

Is the Second Coming of Jesus a Hoax?

Arguably the most important doctrine of Christianity is the doctrine of the Second Coming of Christ, also known as the "Final Judgment." This is the key event that Christians look forward to--the event when Jesus comes down from the clouds of Heaven, to rescue the righteous believers and save them from the wrath of God, while raining merciless judgment upon the unbelievers in the fires of Hell. But what most Christians likely don't know about this "second coming" is that the Bible actually predicted that it would occur soon after Jesus walked the earth. And, as it turns out, the Bible actually says that Jesus predicted exactly when it would occur, and, clearly, this timeframe has passed.

Mark 13:9-30 states:

9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:

16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

So, apparently, the second coming was supposed to occur within the generation alive during Jesus' time. But many apologists object to this and claim that the "generation" referred to in the Mark passage is either referring to a future generation, or means something other than the standard definition of the word "generation." And this objection could be valid IF there were not other scriptures containing the exact same language (and hence the same prophecy) that used different language to specify when the events would occur. As it turns out, Matthew Chapter 10 contains the exact same prophecies (I have underlined the common words), and further specifies that these events would take place within the disciples' lifetimes, specifically, they would be rescued before they finished running away from their persecutors, through the cities of Israel, as we can read in Matthew 10:16-23:

“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.


Take note of the underlined passages. Mark 13:9-13 and Matthew 10:17-22 contain nearly the exact same words, so there is no question that they are referring to the same events. The second coming of Christ (along with the destruction of the solar system, the earth, and many of the stars) was supposed to occur, according to the bible, within the lifetimes of the people alive in Jesus' time, so no later than 100 AD. Obviously this didn't happen. So, in my opinion, we are forced to conclude that the return of Christ is a fable, in the same class as the 2012 doomsday hoax, and other failed Armageddon predictions.

[William]

I think that this information was inserted by the ruling class into the storyline in order to have people focusing on an event which promised salvation from the ruling class...it was probably not meant to endure as it has done. That was just a happy coincidence that people prefer to ignore the obvious and continue focusing upon the promise of salvation.

Did the personality(ies) that the Jesus character was modelled from, really say that or did he tell people that they had to save themselves by changing the way they saw things, subsequently changing the way they did things?

For we have both commentaries supposedly from the mouth of the same person, and at least one of those has proven false...

[JehovahsWitness]

Take note of the underlined passages. Mark 13:9-13 and Matthew 10:17-22 contain nearly the exact same words, so there is no question that they are referring to the same events. The second coming of Christ (along with the destruction of the ) was supposed to occur, according to the bible, within the lifetimes of the people alive in Jesus' time, so no later than 100 AD. Obviously this didn't happen. So, in my opinion, we are forced to conclude that the return of Christ is a fable, in the same class as the 2012 doomsday hoax, and other failed Armageddon predictions.

Jesus was anwsering a 3 "tiered" question that included events surrounding the end of the Jewish temple based system which did indeed happen within the lifetime of his listeners (70 CE). He was not predicting the destruction of the earth or the solar system.

For more on this topic please go to other posts related to...

LAST DAYS and ...THE SECOND COMING *and ... "DELAYS "DEBUNKED,

*The Return of Christ

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Rational Atheist in post #1]

The second coming of Christ (along with the destruction of the solar system, the earth, and many of the stars) was supposed to occur, according to the bible, within the lifetimes of the people alive in Jesus' time, so no later than 100 AD.

By using "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.", to me, it says this 'generation' won't pass until after these things happen. I suppose some could argue that a 'generation' may not mean the same to them as it does to us. Which would be coincidental, as words have meanings for a reason, but not unexpected within any belief system based on stories passed down through the years.

So, in my opinion, we are forced to conclude that the return of Christ is a fable...

I wouldn't discount Christ as a fable only for this reason, but it doesn't help either TBH.

I've heard some people (not on here) talk that it's already happened hundreds of years ago (if not longer). So it seems it's all up for interpretation.

[William]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #4]

When something is prophesied, it is always open to interpretation as long as the prophesy remains unfulfilled...handy that...

[Miles]

Take note of the underlined passages. Mark 13:9-13 and Matthew 10:17-22 contain nearly the exact same words, so there is no question that they are referring to the same events. The second coming of Christ (along with the destruction of the ) was supposed to occur, according to the bible, within the lifetimes of the people alive in Jesus' time, so no later than 100 AD. Obviously this didn't happen. So, in my opinion, we are forced to conclude that the return of Christ is a fable, in the same class as the 2012 doomsday hoax, and other failed Armageddon predictions.

Jesus was anwsering a 3 "tiered" question that included events surrounding the end of the Jewish temple based system which did indeed happen within the lifetime of his listeners (70 CE). He was not predicting the destruction of the earth or the solar system.

Perhaps not, but certainly a colossal restructuring of the universe:

Mark 13:24-27
"When Jesus, the Son of Man, Comes Again

24 “During the days following that time of trouble,
‘The sun will become dark,
and the moon will not give light.
25 The stars will fall from the sky,
and everything in the sky will be changed.

26 “Then people will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 He will send his angels all around the earth. They will gather his chosen people from every part of the earth.’

And, as the Bible says, this was all to happen a couple of thousand years ago.

Matthew 24:29-30, 34
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
.
.
.
34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

So even if it wasn't a hoax it was an extremely grave error on Jesus's part. He blew what was to be a enormously consequential event. Not only disappointing his followers, but casting considerable doubt on his claimed divinity. "I and the Father are one." Yeah sure.





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[Rational Atheist]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #4]

If you re-read what I said, you'll see that Matthew 10 clarifies that the generation was in fact referring to those alive during Jesus' time.

[Rational Atheist]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #3]

Mark 13 states that part of this prophecy involved the stars falling to the earth. You're aware that this would destroy the earth, yes?

[Miles]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #4]

When something is prophesied, it is always open to interpretation as long as the prophesy remains unfulfilled...handy that...

So in Mark 13:30 where Jesus prophesied:

"I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living."

what is to be interpreted differently so as save the verse from its failure?


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[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #3]

Mark 13 states that part of this prophecy involved the stars falling to the earth. You're aware that this would destroy the earth, yes?

I do not believe Jesus was speaking literally.

Perhaps not, but certainly a colossal restructuring of the universe:

No, I don't believe so at all. There is nothing wrong with the structure of the physical universe and absolutly no reason to restructure it. Jesus may have been speaking of some kind of miraculous event that will be seen in the literal heavens (sky), but he certain was not speaking of literal stars colliding with the planet earth since that would surely kill everyone both rightous and unrighteous.


JW

Go to other posts related to


THE PLANET EARTH, .GOD'S KINGDOM and ... THE LAST DAYS