The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[JehovahsWitness]

You mean the question they asked, Acts 1:6?

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”



So I'm not sure what you're trying to say?
Peace again.

The point: is it not evident from the question that the Apostles expected Jesus to establish his kingdom immediately? Please read Luke 19:11 and Luke 24:11.




JW

[tam]

Peace to you.

You mean the question they asked, Acts 1:6?

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”



So I'm not sure what you're trying to say?
Peace again.

The point: is it not evident from the question that the Apostles expected Jesus to establish his kingdom immediately? Please read Luke 19:11 and Luke 24:11.




JW

I think that sidesteps and doesn't address the entirety of my post.

And the apostles may have expected and/or hoped that Christ would establish His Kingdom immediately upon the earth (though I know of none who stated that it would come at a certain year), but they did not turn around when that did not happen and state that it had in fact happened, but only the "faithful" could perceive it.


Peace again to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

And the apostles may have expected and/or hoped that Christ would establish His Kingdom immediately upon the earth ...

There is no "may" about it, It is clear from scripture that the Apostles had false expectations. Now I dont know what you are trying to insinuate about our own, but'one thing is clear, having false expectations is not a sign a group does not have God's approval. Indeed these men were chosen by Christ to spearhead the true church.

So having established from scripture that those chosen by God can have false/ unmmet expectations , let us go back to your original question.

And what were those expectations based upon?

I believe our expectations were based upon the same thing that the Apostle's false/ unmmet expectations were based upon.

Who/what gave them those expectations?

Whoever have the Apostles theirs

[tam]

Peace again to you,

And the apostles may have expected and/or hoped that Christ would establish His Kingdom immediately upon the earth ...

There is no "may" about it, It is clear from scripture that the Apostles hadfalse expectations. Now I dont know what you are trying to insinuate about our own, but'one thing is clear, having false expectations is not a sign a group does not have God's approval.

The pertinent point in that was here in the bold:

And the apostles may have expected and/or hoped that Christ would establish His Kingdom immediately upon the earth (though I know of none who stated that it would come at a certain year), but they did not turn around when that did not happen and state that it had in fact happened, but only the "faithful" could perceive it.

So there really is nothing more than a superficial comparison, which is an attempt (not necessarily by you) to shrug off a false teaching/prediction.

The point in asking who gave jws that false expectation was with regard to who taught the things that never happened in 1914. The regular jw (as opposed to the leaders) did not come up with that date or teaching; the regular jw accepted what someone else said about that year. Their false expectations were based upon someone else's false understanding/teaching.



Peace again.

[JehovahsWitness]

The point in asking who gave jws that false expectation was with regard to who taught the things that never happened in 1914.

Who gave the Apostles that false expectation was with regard to who taught the things that never happened in 33 CE?

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #310]

You're certainly welcome to your opinion.

BTW in answer to your question, "As for Daniel and his 2520 days, which you proscribe as 2520 years, that begs the question; do you use Jewish lunar years, or the JWs Julian calendar years, or the Roman Catholic Gregorian calendar with the years being broken down into months named after different gods?"

Do any of those calendars calculate the Earth going around the sun more than once a year? Or two or more years equaling one year? If not, then the type of calendar doesn't matter in order to count the years.

The Roman emperor Julius Caesar set up a solar calendar year, whereas the Jews had a lunar year, which depends on the cycle of the moon. One is based on the sun, and one is based on the moon. Two different types of years.

The type of calendar doesn't matter. Both only count one year at a time. A person can use a Jewish calendar if they wish. The prophecy is counting the years from the destruction of Jerusalem from the Bible. Count the calendar years from that date using whatever calendar you wish.

I think the general consensus is that the destruction of Jerusalem was in 586 BC and not the JW's 607 BC,

Then the Bible is wrong about the 70 years of capture of the Isrealites in Babylon. If you trust the 'general consensus' of the secular historians then the Jews where only in captivity for 40 years.
So which do you believe? Were the Israelites in Babylon for 70 years as the Bible says or not. Because both the Bible and secular historians agree that the Israelites were released in 537 BCE. So you're going to have to pick you think is right about the destruction of Jerusalem, the Bible or your historians.

The house of Israel was conquered by Assyria around 750 BC and scattered among the nations. As for Judah, the Jews, the destruction of Jerusalem was around 586 BC, and the Temple dedication was around 516 BC. 586-516 is 70 years. There were several deportations of the Jews over a span of years. The pivotal point is the destruction of the Temple and the dedication of the new Temple. The interval of years depends on one's perspective. Choose whatever years you prefer, but Daniel 9 is about "anointing the most holy place". (Daniel 9:24)

[tam]

Peace again to you,

The point in asking who gave jws that false expectation was with regard to who taught the things that never happened in 1914.

Who gave the Apostles that false expectation was with regard to who taught the things that never happened in 33 CE?

Who taught that something was going to happen in 33CE? What was the teaching that person or organization taught?

[JehovahsWitness]

The point in asking who gave jws that false expectation was with regard to who taught the things that never happened in 1914.

Who gave the Apostles that false expectation was with regard to who taught the things that never happened in 33 CE?

Who taught that something was going to happen in 33CE? What was the teaching that person or organization taught?

Ergo the expression... false expectation, nobody taught them that, so (in relation to your question) where did the Apostles get this false expectation from ?


JW

[tam]

Peace again to you,

The point in asking who gave jws that false expectation was with regard to who taught the things that never happened in 1914.

Who gave the Apostles that false expectation was with regard to who taught the things that never happened in 33 CE?

Who taught that something was going to happen in 33CE? What was the teaching that person or organization taught?

Ergo the expression... false expectation, nobody taught them that, so (in relation to your question) where did the Apostles get this false expectation from ?

What does that have to do with the fact that the JW religion (and/or its founders) DID teach something which gave jw's false expectations?

[JehovahsWitness]

What does that have to do with the fact that the JW religion (and/or its founders) DID teach something which gave jw's false expectations?

Who taught something which gave the Apostles false expectations?

LUKE 19:11

While they were listening to these things, he [Jesus] told another illustration, because he was near Jerusalem and they thought that the Kingdom of God was going to appear instantly.

MATTHEW 4:17

From that time on, Jesus began preaching and saying: “Repent, for the Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.”

What was the teaching that person or organization taught?

The point: It is evident from the question at Acts 1 verse 6 that the Apostles expected Jesus to establish his kingdom immediately. They had misconstrue something CHRIST himself had taught. (Compare Luke 24:21)

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