Responsibility

[nobspeople]

You get caught breaking the speed limit, you are responsible for the ticket and or court costs, if not more.
Breaking the speed limit without getting caught still opens you to the possibility of potential repercussions.
Yet, you aren't all knowing, powerful, present, etc.
You're simply a mortal, flawed living animal.

All this said, still, people claim we are responsible for our own sins, and the sins of 'our fathers', so to speak (according to some). This same sin was created (or allowed to be created) by the modern christian god (again, according to some).

For discussion:
Where's god's responsibility in all this?
What's god responsibility for when it comes to sin and the everlasting life some claim it can provide? Does providing a sacrifice suffice? Does god not have any responsibility in this - does it get an excuse?

[JehovahsWitness]

Biblically those that do not give him the respect he is due and refuse to recognise him as a an intelligent person rather than a just an impersonal force will be killed off like so much garbage.

Treating people like garbage is the antithesis of love.

We are talking about killing people and if you look back I spoke about God, not humans.

No human can make that call (all humans especially Christians are under obligation to love even our enemies) but God can do as he pleases. The God of the bible is depicted as always loving, the personification'of love in fact. That said, Garbage is just that which was useful or even valuable or loved, that is either broken, devalued or has served its purpose. When he destroys the wicked, its because the wicked have served their purpose and now must go. It's an act of love... for the righteous.

1 SAMUEL 2:30 - International Standard Version

".... the LORD declares, 'Far be it from me! The one who honors me I'll honor, and the one who despises me is to be treated with contempt.

JW

For more information go to other posts related to

BAD GOD, BIBLICAL KILLING and ... ARMAGEDDON

[nobspeople]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #11]

The God of the bible is depicted as always loving, the personification'of love in fact

Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau before Esau was even born, because Esau had inherited Adam's hatred of God, and God was not pleased (in His mysterious decision) to elect Esau to salvation. Psalm 5:5 says, "The arrogant cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all who do wrong."
There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
– Proverbs 6


Sure, it could be said 'love' and 'hate' equate to 'favor' or 'non favor' but, to me at least, it should be specifically said that way. When the bible uses the word hate, it means hate. If we want to look for other, more 'saving face' definitions, that's fine. But to say "The God of the bible is depicted as always loving..." isn't always true.

[JehovahsWitness]

Sure, it could be said 'love' and 'hate' equate to 'favor' or 'non favor' but, to me at least, it should be specifically said that way.

Well if you write your own bible, you'll be able to put whatever you want in it and use any words you choose.

... to say "The God of the bible is depicted as always loving..." isn't always true.

In your opinion. In my opinion it is always true. There! We have both stated our opinions, how nice.




JW





RELATED POSTS

Can anyone explain what the bible expression "God is love" actually means?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p954754

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

LOVE, HATE and ... THE DIVINE NAME and ...THE DIVINE PERSONALITY

[nobspeople]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #13]

Well if you write your own bible, you'll be able to put whatever you want in it and use any words you choose.

Obviously, but this doesn't change the fact that the biblical quotes I supplied show god is said to hate, which goes against your claim from earlier of: "The God of the bible is depicted as always loving, the personification'of love in fact"

In your opinion. In my opinion it is always true.

Opinions are fine, but here, there is a right and wrong. You're wrong based on supplied texts.
Just in case you 'forgot' here they are, again:
You said: The God of the bible is depicted as always loving, the personification'of love in fact
The bible says: Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau before Esau was even born, because Esau had inherited Adam's hatred of God, and God was not pleased (in His mysterious decision) to elect Esau to salvation. Psalm 5:5 says, "The arrogant cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all who do wrong."
There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
– Proverbs 6

Which shows your opinion is wrong, as stated. Of course, you're free walk-back your words if need be.

Or are you claiming your POV on this is correct and the provided texts are wrong?!?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #13]

Well if you write your own bible, you'll be able to put whatever you want in it and use any words you choose.

Obviously, but this doesn't change the fact that the biblical quotes I supplied show god is said to hate, which goes against your claim from earlier of: "The God of the bible is depicted as always loving, the personification'of love in fact"

That would depend on

1) what the writer meant by the word "hate" .

2) whether one accepts the premise that being or acting in a loving way negates the simlumtaneous existence of hate of any kind.

3) What is meant by the expression "the personification of love"

You're wrong based on supplied texts.

Thats quite a bold claim: If you feel up to writing a detailed exposé with supporting peer revewied references to support your view as per the criteria above, I await your post with interest.


JW

[nobspeople]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #13]

Well if you write your own bible, you'll be able to put whatever you want in it and use any words you choose.

Obviously, but this doesn't change the fact that the biblical quotes I supplied show god is said to hate, which goes against your claim from earlier of: "The God of the bible is depicted as always loving, the personification'of love in fact"

That would depend on

1) what the writer meant by the word "hate" .

2) whether one accepte thenpremise that being or acting in a loving way negates the simlumtaneous existence of hate of any kind.

3) What is meant by the expression "the personification of love"

JW

Well, most of the bible could be discussed as to what's 'meant'. I made this distinction in my initial thread, as you saw I'm sure.
If the bible is relegated to what's 'meant', it's almost totally worthless as a life guide for humanity as a whole. It becomes an individual guide with no need to discuss it with others, as what one sees it to 'mean' another might not, especially if one is steadfast in their POV over what it 'means' or what the writer 'meant', not what it literally is printed to indicate.

As stated, literal your POV here, is wrong, based on what the bible says with its literal words.

How this pertains to responsibility is, I suppose, an aside. I simply wanted to point out in the thread I started that your supplied opinion is wrong based on what's actually written.

[JehovahsWitness]

If the bible is relegated to what's 'meant'...

Well you were the one that just declared my opinion wrong based presumably on your having the definitive understanding not only of what the writers meant but what my expressions meant in relation to to the text. If its impossible to know (because the bible is ultimately "meaningless") , then how can you declare me wrong, and if it is possible to know, I await your supporting hermeneutical evidence.




JW

[nobspeople]

If the bible is relegated to what's 'meant'...

Well you were the one that just declared my opinion wrong based presumably on your having the definitive understanding not only of what the writers meant but what my expressions meant in relation to to the text. If its impossible to know, then how can you declare me wrong, and if it is possible to know, I await your supporting hermeneutical evidence.

You are wrong, again. I never claimed to know what the write 'meant' - stop trying to put words in my mouth. I said, your opinion is wrong based on what it WRITTEN.
Now then, how does this pertain to the thread?

[JehovahsWitness]

I said, your opinion is wrong based on what it WRITTEN.
Now then, how does this pertain to the thread?

You seem to be indicating you favor a literal reading or the text, but I am sure you know the text was not written in English but in Greek. If you feel you know Greek enough to explain what the words literally mean in that language as well as build a case as explained how the term is incompatible with loving behaviour, with support evidence (that is not circular in nature) off you go!

[nobspeople]

I said, your opinion is wrong based on what it WRITTEN.
Now then, how does this pertain to the thread?

You seem to be indicating you favor a literal reading or the text, but I am sure you know the text was not written in English but in Greek. If you feel you know Greek enough to explain what the words literally mean in that language as well as build a case as explained how the term is incompatible with loving behaviour, with support evidence (that is not circular in nature) off you go!

Yet again, I ask, how does this pertain to the thread?