Where is, and recognizing the devil

[nobspeople]

How can one recognize the devil?
"Be careful! Watch out for attacks from the devil, your great enemy. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for some victim to devour. Take a firm stand against him, and be strong in your faith" (I Peter 5:8-9)
There it's said he's a like a roaring lion, but here
"Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers" (II Corinthians 11:14-15).
it says he can be like an angel of light.

So which is it? A roaring lion or light angel? Contradictory much? Or maybe, the devil can be both things, at which point we're right back to the first question, how can one recognize him.

"Humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7).
This seems to say if you're humble before god, you can resist the devil and he will leave you. But it still doesn't say how to recognize him.
This:
"He was a murderer from the beginning and has always hated the truth. There is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies" (John 8:44).
doesn't seem to help recognizing him, either - just tells you what it claims the devil is.

Seems the devil is more of a spirit and less of a legitimate 'thing' (though some claim it's a very real person - see link below*, which seems odd to use the term 'person'), so maybe, to recognize it, when need to know where it lives today.
Pergamum was said to be “where the throne of Satan is” and “where Satan is dwelling.” (Revelation 2:13). However, some think this refers more to the satanic worship than an actual residence. Odd that god would let some think this and others think something else, but that's another story to address elsewhere.
The Bible says that the Devil rules over “all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth,” so he does not dwell in any one physical location on earth but is confined to the vicinity of the earth.​—(Luke 4:​5, 6).

For discussion: How does one recognize the devil? Or does that even matter? And where is the devil today?

* https://www.focusonthefamily.com/family ... the-devil/

[Diagoras]

You can't provide verifiable evidence that you suffer pain, although you may think in your mind that you suffer pain.

Perhaps of interest to philosophers, but not the ones that have just stubbed their toe on the sidewalk.

and I think you think you suffer pain, probably in response to the sins you bear,

So it's a sin to stub your toe on the sidewalk? And those born with congenital analgesia - what's the deal there?

You can go to your doctor, but he will probably just transfer one pain to somewhere else.

Or, you know, cure it. I don't know what you think it is that doctors do all day, but a 'Pain Transfer Agent' wouldn't stay registered for very long...

Please don't confuse "Christians" with the righteous. The "Christians", like apparently most antitheist, feel that they can set the law from within their own heart, and then suffer consequently.

Clear as mud.

The "Christians", via the false prophet Paul, via Romans 7:20-21, blame their sin, the base of their suffering on the evil/devil within them.

Getting somewhat closer to the topic at last. So, the Devil is "in" these Christians who are suffering pain? Why is he there - what's he hoping to achieve? Can't be pleasant for him, at any rate.

You apparently only have yourself to blame for any actions which lead to your eventual suffering and pain.

Generally true - if I go and do something stupidly risky, I'll be blaming myself for the cuts and burns for sure. No need for a Devil here, though.

You apparently make false assumptions not based on any verifiable evidence.

I notice that you frequently use the word 'apparently'. Is this in an attempt to avoid being accused of the very thing you're accusing others of?

[Diagoras]

I think the lore on this is that Lucifer thought angels were good enough and objected to the creation of humans as unnecessary. It was a huge sticking point of his with God and why he ultimately fell from Heaven. It's also his main motivation in making humans look bad, which he can do because humans are bad. It's why he never really forces anybody to do anything: He's trying to show the true nature of the human.

In which case, God's stubbornly refusing to listen to him. The Devil needs a new tactic.

Just suppose for an instance, this is true. The Devil is trying to convince God that humans were a waste of time. But the Devil presumably knows his Scripture. So he knows what's in store for him at Armageddon: a big battle, which he's fated to lose. Then he's on a countdown to destruction. End of the line.

And what's going to precipitate Armageddon? Probably when God becomes convinced enough by the idea that most people are bad - an idea that the Devil is promoting!

What a ninny! He should be doing the opposite and acting to bring everyone back to God instead. Then God will have no need to cleanse the entire earth with seas of blood, earthquakes and whatnot, and the Devil might even be allowed back into heaven.

[Purple Knight]

What a ninny! He should be doing the opposite and acting to bring everyone back to God instead. Then God will have no need to cleanse the entire earth with seas of blood, earthquakes and whatnot, and the Devil might even be allowed back into heaven.

He cares more about being right than he cares about being rewarded. I think God made him in my image.

Not really kidding. I might actually accept minor compromises but if God is ideologically very disagreeable to me I don't want to be in Heaven even if it's pleasant. If truth is opposed to pleasantville I choose truth.

Or, you know, cure it. I don't know what you think it is that doctors do all day, but a 'Pain Transfer Agent' wouldn't stay registered for very long...

I think he's talking about the medical industry being a den of greedy snakes who will pump you with poison because it enriches the poison-sellers. One problem, two pills, two pills, four side-effects, four more problems and eight more pills. Cha-ching!

To be fair a lot of doctors are nice people. The companies developing the drugs though, they just want money money money.

Lots of people distrust the medical and pharmaceutical industries.

[JehovahsWitness]

So what's his 'end game' here? This "ruling over the earth" doesn't seem to involve any of the attributes you'd commonly associate with a ruler. His main interaction with his 'subjects' (if you can call them that) seems to be to subtly tempt them into sinning, and therefore away from God. What's in it for the Devil in this story? Is he just trying to spoil God's party? He doesn't demand obedience or sacrifice from anyone.

What powers does he possess as a ruler? Presumably some kind of omniscience and omnipresence similar to God's, if he can zip about tempting billions of people on a daily basis. Why does he bother with any of this, though? He lacks a clear purpose.

A ruler is generally someone who influences the lives of his subjects; biblically that is exactly what Satan does. His purpose is to oppose Jehovah God's purpose*.

Satan rules this world in that he ultimately controls its political, military, commercial and religious organisations as well as through them and their agencies, influence how society and individuals think and behave.

[ * ]Jehovah's purpose is that he, Himself to rule over all creation being worshippers as the souvereign ruler of the universe .





RELATED POSTS

Is SATAN omniscience and omnipresent?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 09#p848009

Why is Satan called "The God of this world"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 23#p901623

In what sense does Satan "rule the world"? [this post]
viewtopic.php?p=1068633#p1068633

Grand puppeteer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 93#p900093

Why would someone rebel against the Almighty?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 45#p338945

To learn more please go to other posts related to ....

ANGELS , DEMONS and ... SATAN THE DEVIL

[Chapabel]

You could say that, but you'd be wrong: James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

God did indeed place the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden and command man not to eat of it. God wants us to obey Him because we choose to, not because we have to. In order to choose God, there has to be a choice between Him and something else.

And yes, Satan is a being, not just a concept.

In this sub-forum the Bible is not considered authoritative. If you intend to support your claim that Satan is a being, not just a concept, you'll need to do so without relying on the Bible. What can you provide that qualifies?


Tcg

I double checked the sub-forum and it is called "Christianity and Apologetics". It is impossible to discuss Christianity apart from the Bible. At least from an authoritative position. If you don't recognize the Bible as authoritative, you should be on the atheist's site. I stand by my post. The Bible presents Satan as a living being. If you disregard that fact, the problem lies with you, and not me.

[2ndpillar2]

You can't provide verifiable evidence that you suffer pain, although you may think in your mind that you suffer pain.

Perhaps of interest to philosophers, but not the ones that have just stubbed their toe on the sidewalk.

and I think you think you suffer pain, probably in response to the sins you bear,

So it's a sin to stub your toe on the sidewalk? And those born with congenital analgesia - what's the deal there?

You can go to your doctor, but he will probably just transfer one pain to somewhere else.

Or, you know, cure it. I don't know what you think it is that doctors do all day, but a 'Pain Transfer Agent' wouldn't stay registered for very long...

Please don't confuse "Christians" with the righteous. The "Christians", like apparently most antitheist, feel that they can set the law from within their own heart, and then suffer consequently.

Clear as mud.

The "Christians", via the false prophet Paul, via Romans 7:20-21, blame their sin, the base of their suffering on the evil/devil within them.

Getting somewhat closer to the topic at last. So, the Devil is "in" these Christians who are suffering pain? Why is he there - what's he hoping to achieve? Can't be pleasant for him, at any rate.

You apparently only have yourself to blame for any actions which lead to your eventual suffering and pain.

Generally true - if I go and do something stupidly risky, I'll be blaming myself for the cuts and burns for sure. No need for a Devil here, though.

You apparently make false assumptions not based on any verifiable evidence.

I notice that you frequently use the word 'apparently'. Is this in an attempt to avoid being accused of the very thing you're accusing others of?

Congenital analgesia is the inability to feel pain. I am not sure where you insert "sin" into that condition. As for one stubbing their toe on the sidewalk, you would have to provide objective evidence that the bump caused pain, versus a simply physical sensation, other than in one's mind. In the mind of your person with "congenital analgesia", there would be no perceived pain. In the mind of a hypochondriac, their ramped up mental condition can trigger their symptoms and perception of pain. For the hypochondriac, the perceived pain in their mind could be a desire fulfilled. You may ask, where do mental flaws come from. Falling from a 10-story apartment might be one answer, but the question would be, why did they fall, or why would they do something "stupidly risky"? Another answer would be the person's mental instability comes from being possessed by demons. Why did Evel Knievel acquire so many broken bones?

[2ndpillar2]

The fact that you suffer pain, is proof enough. [that the devil does indeed exist]

Or it is evidence that the nervous system evolved a means of indicating that some form of injury has occurred. You have not demonstrated any verifiable link between pain and an alleged devil.

You haven't demonstrated a verifiable pain. Those with congenital analgesia, apparently don't even perceive pain. If the wind falls a tree in the forest, and there is no one there to perceive the event, can you say the wind produced the fall, or do you fall back on other non-verifiable evidence? I think most lives are based on presumptions and indoctrination, with very little objective verifiable evidence. You might think that cloth masks are effective today, but tomorrow, when you hear that the CNN health expert has said they are nothing but "face decorations", you might change your mind, or you might go with the view that was the result of media indoctrination. What one thinks or doesn't think, is metered according to their subjective views, which are drawn from a mind which may be healthy, or one that may not be sound. Who is to say that "evil" comes from a defective mind, or a mind made defective by demons?

[1213]

...she acquired his vanity and ego. ...

Sorry, i don’t see any reason to think the vanity and ego would be God’s qualities.

"For I am a Jealous God" That fits in with vanity and ego.

I don’t think so. I think envy could maybe be, but jealousy is basically to expect one to keep what is his. I think it is not vain or egoistical.

[1213]

...she acquired his vanity and ego. ...

Sorry, i don’t see any reason to think the vanity and ego would be God’s qualities.

She was made in God's image. Where else would it come from? This was before sin entered the picture.

People have many things that are not directly from God. For example, we have physical body, while God is a spirit.

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

I think we are image of spirit and it means, we have similar abilities. And some may use the abilities badly and follow bad ideas.

[William]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

How does one recognize the devil?
And where is the devil today?

I have added both these questions to my ComList and N2N list.

N2N:

How does one recognize the devil = 310
A Politically Manufactured device = 310

Where is the devil today? = 237
There is good out there
Blue yellow black green red
Quantum Entanglement


Recent GMs have mentioned the Devil.

Fling That Veil Aside
Conceptual Art
The Devil Ye Know
Old Outposts Of Form
A Matter of Knowing Where to Look
Heuristics
Use Your Freedom
Preparing for the Hunt

The Plateau of The Same Page
Encounters
First Things First
Is Like...
Better The Devil You Know
James Webb Space Telescope

A Politically Manufactured Device
If someone were to declare that the Universe was a random mindless accident of an event, then they are saying that its existence is a 'truly random event'.
Ikigai
The Devil Ye Know
Your Dream Team
Solar System
Can You Answer This?