Not created equal

Argue for and against Christianity

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nobspeople
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Not created equal

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Seems JWs aren't christian, according to this:

https://murraycampbell.net/2020/06/22/n ... christian/

From the link:
"I said, “BTW Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a church. They have nothing to do with Christianity & neither do they describe their communities as a church”."

:shock:

From here:
https://www.quora.com/Why-arent-Jehovah ... ominations

"The problem with Jehovah’s Witness is that it was fundamentally an apocalypse movement; Nelson H. Barbour and Charles Taze Russell published Three Worlds, a book that claimed that it could be determined when the world was going to end. In 1877, it was claimed that the world would end in 1914."


Here is a back-n-forth for reading at your leisure that may be important to the topic at hand
http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/jehovah.htm


There seems to be something about humanity that fosters differences rather than similarities - might be human nature (?).
Seems religion and other organizations tend to be bred from this necessity for differences.

If god created everyone, and wants everyone to 'be with him for eternity' (for those that believe that) why would it allow such divisiveness, especially among fellow believers?

For discussion:

God allows this divisiveness - maybe even promotes it - or is it a result of the 'famously god given' free will?
Or, like seemingly everything else, is it all satan, and god just sits back and cries 'foul'?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Not created equal

Post #2

Post by 1213 »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:24 pm ...
God allows this divisiveness - maybe even promotes it - ...
I think God allows it, but I believe His will would be that disciples of Jesus (“Christians” ) are unite, because:

that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
John 17:21
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Re: Not created equal

Post #3

Post by Purple Knight »

I sort of laugh at this as I know JWs at least know their own lore. Many mainstream Christians... seem not to, or they brush off certain points.

But let's boil this down. When one Christian says, "I am the true Christian, they are not," what he is really saying is simply that he thinks he is right. He believes his interpretation is correct.

Well duh.

Ultimately, you either believe you are correct and the other fellow isn't, or you believe a plurality of beliefs can be correct, or you're somewhat cognitively dissonant and believe that only you are correct, but somehow that other person still counts as a Christian even though he is wrong. Perhaps he's made a genuine mistake and he'll be forgiven for his being wrong, perhaps you're admitting you don't know for absolute certain, or perhaps you simply withhold judgment.

I favour that second one: Not knowing for absolute certain who is correct. If we extend this to all parties, universalise it, it means everybody who is genuine and making the attempt to be a Christian is one, because none of us have the certain knowledge say which interpretation is right.

But there has to come a point where a handful of people calling themselves Christian are eating babies and the rest of the Christians say, enough is enough, and all denounce them. The whole "nobody really knows" is best, but it still has this flaw.

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Re: Not created equal

Post #4

Post by TRANSPONDER »

That's true, but eating babies (and the like) is a legal cut - off not even a moral one as different sects disapprove of one another morally, too.The law doesn't care about doctrinal disagreements, just where the law is involved. In other words, Religion isn't the arbiter in society; mundane lawmaking is.

So that aside, which isn't a religious matter (outside of theocracies, at least), it is better if all who regard Jesus as the risen son of God as Christians, just as secularists do, and generally if you want to avoid logical or even practical bear - traps one could do worse than listen to the Secularists.

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Re: Not created equal

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

PLEASE NOTE I make no claims here, I am simply expressing what I believe based on the bible. Please take all sentences to be preceeded by the premise "I believe ..."
nobspeople wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:24 pmFor discussion:

God allows this divisiveness - maybe even promotes it - or is it a result of the 'famously god given' free will?
Or, like seemingly everything else, is it all satan, and god just sits back and cries 'foul'?
As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I would say I believe God does allow all kinds of divisions (social, racial, even religious). The bible says however that his will is that one day mankind will be united and at peace.





JEHOVAH'S WITNESS



JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES - BELIEFS

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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , CHRISTIANITY and ...RELIGIOUS TRUTH
Source: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/
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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Not created equal

Post #6

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:22 pm
PLEASE NOTE I make no claims here, I am simply expressing what I believe based on the bible. Please take all sentences to be preceeded by the premise "I believe ..."
nobspeople wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:24 pmFor discussion:

God allows this divisiveness - maybe even promotes it - or is it a result of the 'famously god given' free will?
Or, like seemingly everything else, is it all satan, and god just sits back and cries 'foul'?
As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I would say I believe God does allow all kinds of divisions (social, racial, even religious). The bible says however that his will is that one day mankind will be united and at peace.
Considering this has yet to happen one has to wonder what god is waiting for before putting his will into action. After all, it's estimated that 117 billion people have lived on the planet.* So how many more billions have to die before mankind is united and at peace? Not that I expect a direct answer from anyone, but one does have to question either the truth of what the Bible says or god's sensibilities.


* source


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Re: Not created equal

Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:58 pm
Considering this has yet to happen one has to wonder what god is waiting for ...
I used to wonder that myself, I found satisfying answers in the bible [ * ]. I was helped by studying the bible with Jehovahs Witnesses.




[ * ] I am ONLY mentioning the bible to show what Christianity says in line with subforum guidelines, not to prove that a statement or story therein is true. ​I am not presenting the bible as authorative or proof of truth and have no intention to add an argument to that end in this subforum See LINKS for details: viewtopic.php?p=213491#p213491
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Not created equal

Post #8

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #5]

Jehovah's Witnesses are closer to the truth than those of the mainstream Christian religions. Why? Because they don't believe Jesus is God in the flesh.

Of course mainstream Christianity will say they aren't Christian. JW's may not realize it but that is a compliment. Because mainstream Christians are idoloters. JWs are not.

God is not a man. That is true.

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Re: Not created equal

Post #9

Post by Miles »

Avoice wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:14 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #5]

Jehovah's Witnesses are closer to the truth than those of the mainstream Christian religions. Why? Because they don't believe Jesus is God in the flesh.
So you say, but why? What is your foundation for concluding that not believing Jesus is God in the flesh makes one closer to the truth? AND, just what is the truth, that Jesus is not God in the flesh? If so, just where has this been established? I ask because the Bible appears to say quite differently.

1. John 10:30
“The Father and I are one.”

2. Philippians 2:5-6
“You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.”

3. John 1:18
“No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.“

4. Colossians 2:9-10
“For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.“

5. 1 John 5:20
“And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.“

6. John 20:27-28
“Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

7. Acts 20:28
“Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.“




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Re: Not created equal

Post #10

Post by otseng »

Avoice wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:14 pmBecause mainstream Christians are idoloters.

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