Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

[POI]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #61]

Yes the question of whether Christianity is Jewish is not the topic. Scroll back and see who brings up the tangent.

No need. I remember who posted a video which started the whole absurd notion that Christianity is Jewish.

The thread is about 'cutting to the chase'. For me I have lots of evidence but at core I say it is faith.

If you had evidence, you'd not need faith. Additionally, I've noticed you've presented zero evidence here. Not surprising, one can't present that which doesn't exist.

I look for the atheist that is so honest to say they have evidence but in the end it is faith.

There is no need for faith to not accept that for which there is no evidence of. Faith is only needed when one accepts the unbelievable.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Tcg in post #61]

Yes the question of whether Christianity is Jewish is not the topic. Scroll back and see who brings up the tangent.

The thread is about 'cutting to the chase'. For me I have lots of evidence but at core I say it is faith.

I look for the atheist that is so honest to say they have evidence but in the end it is faith.

Faith is evidence of nothing. In fact it has a regrettable tendency to make one side misrepresent the evidence to support what they believe on Faith. I think that we are capable of assessing the worth of an evidence -based case, even if we disagree. But we need more than Faith, Biblequotes and personal anecdotes of finding car keys or the like with God's help. Oh and yes, we have no problem with not trying to use Judaism to validate Christianity.

[TRANSPONDER]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

It is my position after many years pondering this subject myself, that one cannot discover God, find God, prove God to other people. Only God can cause us to become aware of God. God reveals knowledge including knowledge that God exists, has mind and so on.

It is fruitless to ask questions like "show me evidence" because we innately have no way of understanding what evidence for God is, until God wants you to understand you will not understand.

It is written:

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

We cannot know God, cannot perceive the reality of God on our own, only God can reveal himself to us and that often happens slowly, painfully, one must undergo a change of mindset, and we cannot do so of ourselves.

All knowledge of God is revealed knowledge, one can look here and look there for evidence but it is fruitless, God is unlike anything we deal with in our fleshly lives and so seeking God on fleshly, material terms is doomed to fail.

It has meen my experience that Theists make one line claims and the atheist side have to write 250 words to refute it. I do that myself. It's not often I find a long post that is an inflated way of saying "I have no evidence".

[POI]

It is my position after many years pondering this subject myself, that one cannot discover God, find God, prove God to other people. Only God can cause us to become aware of God.

This response sounds quite convenient.

God reveals knowledge including knowledge that God exists, has mind and so on.

Since you have been pondering this subject for years:

1. How do you know "God" reveals anything to anyone?
2. How do you know the Christian God even exists?
3. What 'knowledge' did the Christian God reveal to you; and, how do you know it was Him at all?

It is fruitless to ask questions like "show me evidence" because we innately have no way of understanding what evidence for God is

Then how the heck would anyone know if/when they were receiving evidence for the Christian God?

until God wants you to understand you will not understand.

Baseless claim -- noted.

We cannot know God, cannot perceive the reality of God on our own, only God can reveal himself to us and that often happens slowly, painfully, one must undergo a change of mindset, and we cannot do so of ourselves.

You already expressed, above, "we innately have no way of understanding what evidence for God is". Thus, your above statement is pointless.

Further, your statement is also wrong --- as "Satan and a third of the angels", as well as 'Sal of Tarsus', etc etc etc, all have/had the incorrect "mindset", BUT still acknowledge the Bible God's existence What evidence did they receive?

[brunumb]

It is my position after many years pondering this subject myself, that one cannot discover God, find God, prove God to other people. Only God can cause us to become aware of God. God reveals knowledge including knowledge that God exists, has mind and so on.

So, when the delusion sets in, that was caused by God. Got it.

[Bust Nak]

So, when the delusion sets in, that was caused by God. Got it.

Moderator Comment

Tone down the rhetoric please. It's also one-liner that doesn't add to the debate.

Please review the Rules.



______________



Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[1213]

...
Gen. 1:10 states god will call the dry land 'earth', and the wet area 'sea'. There is nothing profound or prolific in this passage at all. ...

It shows there was one continent, one area of dry land and one area that was called the sea. How do you think humans would have known that before modern "science"?

[1213]

...People make stuff up....

I can believe that in the case of atheists.

[1213]

...The ancient sea bed was raised up as land masses collided and pushed the old strata up...

The problem with that is, there is no credible natural force to do that. Because of the weight, things tend to settle rather than rise. That is why it is more probable that things just go down and level up, because of the weight.

[1213]

... I examined that and showed that it was hardly a circle, but the general middle east. As I recall, you didn't respond. ...

Sorry, I don't think you showed any good reason to think it was just the general Middle East. By what the Bible tells, the dry land was vast continent and Middle East only small part of it.