Hell - A misunderstood word

[MissKate13]

The English word hell appears twenty-three times in the King James Version of the New Testament. “Hell” actually represents three different terms in the Greek New Testament.

The first is “ade.” It is translated hell ten times in the KJV. Many new versions use the word Hades instead of hell. There are several ways Hades is used in the NT. The best way to determine its use is by context. In some places Hades is defined as the abode of departed spirits.

Gehenna (geennan), on the other hand, seems to be a place of torment, one to be avoided. Gehenna originates from two Hebrew words meaning “Valley of Hinnom.” The Valley of Hinnom, in the mind of the Jews, was detestable, disgusting, sickening, entirely unpleasant, and a place to be avoided. That was exactly what Jesus wanted to get across each time he used the term geennan.

Tartarus occurs only one in the New Testament (2 Peter 2:4). Here, it is used of the abode of evil angels prior to their banishment to Gehenna, their ultimate destiny (Mt. 25:41). It denotes that area of Hades in which both rebel men and angels are punished prior to the day of judgment. 2 Peter 2:9 supports this: “the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment”

“Hell” is not the grave. In the New Testament there are three words that refer to the grave. They are taphos, mnema, and mnemeion. Taphos is used seven times and is translated sepulcher six times and tomb once.
Mnema is translated as tomb twice, grave once, and sepulcher four times.
Mnemeion is used five times as tomb, twenty-nine times as sepulcher, and eight times as grave.

Mt 5:22 geennan
Mt 5:29 geennan
Mt 5:30 geennan
Mt 10:28 geenne
Mt 11:23 adou
Mt 16:18 adou
Mt 18:9 geennan
Mt 23:15 geennes
My 23:33 geennes
Mark 9:43 geennan
Mark 9:47 geennan
Mark 9:47 geennan
Luke 10:15 adou
Luke 12:5 geennan
Luke 16:23 ade
Acts 2:27 aden
Acts 2:31 aden
James 3:6 geennes
2 Peter 2:4 tartarōsas
Rev 1:18 adou
Rev 6:8 ades
Rev 20:13 ades
Rev 20:14 ades

Your thoughts?

[JehovahsWitness]

Interesting the Old English word HELL, "haljō" is not linked with fire or torture but ultimately rooted in the Proto-Indo-European word "ḱel" which means “to cover, hide, conceal”.

• SHEOL The Hebrew word simply refers to "the grave"(not *a* grave, as in the literal place of burial place /a tomb)... but THE (symbolic) grave , namely the condition of nonexistence all physical creatures (animal or human) end up in. It is never associated with activity but rather with inactivity and lack of consciousness. For more details on the bjblical meaning of SHEOL please see the following LINK:
  http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 09#p767709
  
  HADES : The Greek equivalent of "sheol" (see above for definition/description) NOTE Its biblical usage is not to be confused with the classic greek meaning.
  
  GEHENNA A local garbage dump outside Jerusalem during the first century, used by Jesus as a symbol* for death (non-existence) without hope of a resurrection. NOTE In the bible FIRE is often used, not as a symbol of immortal existence under torturous conditions but rather as a symbol of complete and utter annihilation; the book of Revelation also makes use of such language. For more details on the biblical meaning of GEHENNA please see the following LINK:
  http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p373876
  
  TARTARUS Used exclusively by Peter in his letter this word is used to described the abased condition of the demons rather than a specific location. It should not be translated as hell as it has no relation to either SHEOL or Hades as used elswhere jn scripture and is not used as a synonym. For more details on the biblical meaning of TARTARUS please see the following LINK:
  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004329

*ILLUSTRATIONS Jesus gave a number of illustrations speaking about the spiritual state of those condemned by God which instead of being read as such, have been used out of context as refering to the torture of people after their physical death.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HADES , GEHENNA, and ... HELLFIRE TORTURE DEBUNKED

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #26]

Since it is a fact that Jesus spoke in illustration and Jesus said, “for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [my] voice and come out.” , it would be acceptable to think that Jesus wasn't been literal about the dead in the tombs.

With Jesus there was an illustration and then an explanation of the illustration.
John 6:53-56 compare with Matt. 26:27, 28

Paul repeated Jesus at Acts 24:25. We can then conclude that what Jesus said about those coming back to life is literal. "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life." John 11:25

We can conclude a few things.

The bottom line is, personalities do not die unless YHVH deletes [kills] them.

Agreed?

I do believe that all a person is can die but yes, in a manner of speaking only Jehovah can completely destroy their life. "And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." Matt 10:28

[William]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #32]

We can conclude a few things.

The bottom line is, personalities do not die unless YHVH deletes [kills] them.

Agreed?

I do believe that all a person is can die but yes, in a manner of speaking only Jehovah can completely destroy their life. "And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." Matt 10:28

While a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, sugar-coating the sayings of Jesus doesn't guarantee the medicine [information] will stay down [be accepted].

Agreed?

Point being, if The Elohim has some sort of 'library' where 'souls' are stored/saved, even if those individual personalities are in a state perpetual non-awareness until such a time as the are activated [resurrected] - souls which are useless to YHVH, are deleted [killed by the one who has the authority to do so] and in this, they are not even 'saved for a while' in the Elohim databanks.

Agreed?

Where do you get the idea that YHVH would keep 'some' of a soul re your use of the word 'completely' here

I do believe that all a person is can die but yes, in a manner of speaking only Jehovah can completely destroy their life.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #32]

We can conclude a few things.

The bottom line is, personalities do not die unless YHVH deletes [kills] them.

Agreed?

I do believe that all a person is can die but yes, in a manner of speaking only Jehovah can completely destroy their life. "And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." Matt 10:28

While a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, sugar-coating the sayings of Jesus doesn't guarantee the medicine [information] will stay down [be accepted].

Agreed?

Even some people that listened to Jesus' actual voice and watched him bring people back from dead didn't accept Jesus' sayings.

Point being, if The Elohim has some sort of 'library' where 'souls' are stored/saved, even if those individual personalities are in a state perpetual non-awareness until such a time as the are activated [resurrected] - souls which are useless to YHVH, are deleted [killed by the one who has the authority to do so] and in this, they are not even 'saved for a while' in the Elohim databanks.

Agreed?

The Bible doesn't give enough information as to how the memory of God works but I am satisfied with however He handles the lives of my dead loved ones and even everything that makes me, me if I die. Useless might not be a strong enough word, I'd use worthless. Like a rusted out Shelby Cobra with no motor. Some might consider it useless in it's condition but to a person with the knowledge to restore it is certainly not worthless.

Where do you get the idea that YHVH would keep 'some' of a soul re your use of the word 'completely' here

I do believe that all a person is can die but yes, in a manner of speaking only Jehovah can completely destroy their life.

I take the Bible's view of what a 'soul' is. A soul is not the spirit body of a person. A soul is a complete person. Their body, their personality, likes, dislikes, the whole person, including their current life and their future life makes up a person. Details of a person's brain that we as humans still can't fathom much less remember it's structure. Jehovah, on the other hand knows every single detail. He created the material we are made of, so from memory He can recreate anyone He chooses. A person that God is going to make live again is not gone. They have a future. A person that God is willing to never bring to life again is completely destroyed. They have no future.

[William]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #34]

Point being, if The Elohim has some sort of 'library' where 'souls' are stored/saved, even if those individual personalities are in a state perpetual non-awareness until such a time as the are activated [resurrected] - souls which are useless to YHVH, are deleted [killed by the one who has the authority to do so] and in this, they are not even 'saved for a while' in the Elohim databanks.

Agreed?

The Bible doesn't give enough information as to how the memory of God works but I am satisfied with however He handles the lives of my dead loved ones and even everything that makes me, me if I die.

I agree that the Bible is lacking information. Given the information it does provide, and knowing the huge numbers of individual personalities who have experienced life on earth to date, the data of experience of those personalities would have to be saved somewhere, so we can ascertain from that, that the Elohim databanks must be very impressive both in size and in function.

Agreed?

Useless might not be a strong enough word, I'd use worthless. Like a rusted out Shelby Cobra with no motor. Some might consider it useless in it's condition but to a person with the knowledge to restore it is certainly not worthless.

Not sure where you are going with that Timothy.
Are you saying there is someone with expertise and authority to 'restore' that which YHVH would otherwise find useless/worthless?

Where do you get the idea that YHVH would keep 'some' of a soul re your use of the word 'completely' here.

I do believe that all a person is can die but yes, in a manner of speaking only Jehovah can completely destroy their life.

I take the Bible's view of what a 'soul' is.

Are you saying that you take from the Bible the things which you interpret as holding up your particular beliefs re such matters?

A soul is not the spirit body of a person. A soul is a complete person. Their body, their personality, likes, dislikes, the whole person, including their current life and their future life makes up a person.

Others disagree with this interpretation. I myself remain undecided in the face of the growing evidence, some of which contradicts the beliefs of some of the Bible authors.
The way I see it - if a soul is saved in storage for a thousand years, and then restored to a functioning form, then - from the personalities point of view - the action would be instantaneous.

Agreed?

Details of a person's brain that we as humans still can't fathom much less remember it's structure.

This is to say, you agree with the idea that a person is essentially 'the brain' - just as atheistic thinking materialists believe?

YHVH, on the other hand knows every single detail. YHVH created the material we are made of, so from memory YHVH can recreate anyone YHVH chooses. A person that YHVH is going to make live again is not gone. They have a future. A person that YHVH is willing to never bring to life again is completely destroyed. They have no future.

It terms of economics, the idea that YHVH 'has a memory' would still equate to that being the Elohim Library Database, where such memory is stored/saved, and can be accessed and placed within any form YHVH might choose to insert it within.

Agreed?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #34]

Point being, if The Elohim has some sort of 'library' where 'souls' are stored/saved, even if those individual personalities are in a state perpetual non-awareness until such a time as the are activated [resurrected] - souls which are useless to YHVH, are deleted [killed by the one who has the authority to do so] and in this, they are not even 'saved for a while' in the Elohim databanks.

Agreed?

The Bible doesn't give enough information as to how the memory of God works but I am satisfied with however He handles the lives of my dead loved ones and even everything that makes me, me if I die.

I agree that the Bible is lacking information. Given the information it does provide, and knowing the huge numbers of individual personalities who have experienced life on earth to date, the data of experience of those personalities would have to be saved somewhere, so we can ascertain from that, that the Elohim databanks must be very impressive both in size and in function.

Agreed?

I don't think we can fathom how He does anything.

Useless might not be a strong enough word, I'd use worthless. Like a rusted out Shelby Cobra with no motor. Some might consider it useless in it's condition but to a person with the knowledge to restore it is certainly not worthless.

Not sure where you are going with that Timothy.
Are you saying there is someone with expertise and authority to 'restore' that which YHVH would otherwise find useless/worthless?

No. His Son Jesus does have the expertise as well. However, he uses that expertise at his Father's direction. Whatever Jehovah finds worthless Jesus does as well. John 10:30

Where do you get the idea that YHVH would keep 'some' of a soul re your use of the word 'completely' here.

I do believe that all a person is can die but yes, in a manner of speaking only Jehovah can completely destroy their life.

I take the Bible's view of what a 'soul' is.

Are you saying that you take from the Bible the things which you interpret as holding up your particular beliefs re such matters?

No. "For dust you are and to dust you will return.” Gen 3:19. I give no interpretation with the fact we are just made of dust.

A soul is not the spirit body of a person. A soul is a complete person. Their body, their personality, likes, dislikes, the whole person, including their current life and their future life makes up a person.

Others disagree with this interpretation. I myself remain undecided in the face of the growing evidence, some of which contradicts the beliefs of some of the Bible authors.
The way I see it - if a soul is saved in storage for a thousand years, and then restored to a functioning form, then - from the personalities point of view - the action would be instantaneous.

Agreed?

The number of people that agree with me or not doesn't count in my beliefs. There is no evidence in the Bible that there is a soul storage box. (Sounds like the name for a rock band)

Details of a person's brain that we as humans still can't fathom much less remember it's structure.

This is to say, you agree with the idea that a person is essentially 'the brain' - just as atheistic thinking materialists believe?

The way atheist believe doesn't factor into my beliefs. Even a broken clock is right 2 times a day. There is no evidence that a person is made of more than, dust, water and air. If a person suffers brain damage why don't they continue to act normally? If everyone has this 'soul' as people say, why can't the person just keep acting normal? Shouldn't that so-called 'soul' be the actual person and damage to the brain shouldn't be a factor in their behavior, right?

A person that YHVH is going to make live again is not gone. They have a future. A person that YHVH is willing to never bring to life again is completely destroyed. They have no future.

It terms of economics, the idea that YHVH 'has a memory' would still equate to that being the Elohim Library Database, where such memory is stored/saved, and can be accessed and placed within any form YHVH might choose to insert it within.

Agreed?

Not enough information to know for sure. You're going off your knowledge of how a human brain works for recalling memories. There is no evidence that God's memory is built or works like ours.

[Tcg]

This is to say, you agree with the idea that a person is essentially 'the brain' - just as atheistic thinking materialists believe?

It's always amusing to see theists attempt to represent what they think is true of "atheistic thinking materialists" whatever that absurd term may mean. This atheist thinks that a person is much more than just 'the brain.' Strawman arguments never support the argument in the way the presenter hopes they may. Those who pay attention to the fallacious argumentation realize they do the opposite.


Tcg

[William]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #36]

A person that YHVH is going to make live again is not gone. They have a future. A person that YHVH is willing to never bring to life again is completely destroyed. They have no future.

It terms of economics, the idea that YHVH 'has a memory' would still equate to that being the Elohim Library Database, where such memory is stored/saved, and can be accessed and placed within any form YHVH might choose to insert it within.

Agreed?

Not enough information to know for sure. You're going off your knowledge of how a human brain works for recalling memories. There is no evidence that YHVH''s memory is built or works like ours.

I am simply going with the belief you have that YHVH has a memory. How it works isn't of issue, even that biblical evidence tells us that humans were created in the image of YHVH, and so YHVH might have some type of brain-like device which has the capability of storing memory and that is what you meant when you wrote;

The Bible doesn't give enough information as to how the memory of God works but I am satisfied with however He handles the lives of my dead loved ones and even everything that makes me, me if I die.

Given the information the Bible does provide, and knowing the huge numbers of individual personalities who have experienced life on earth to date, the data of experience of those personalities would have to be saved somewhere, so we can ascertain from that, that the Elohim databanks must be very impressive both in size and in function.

You don't think we can fathom how YHVH managers to do this, but we have enough information to assert that the database must be impressive for YHVH to be able to achieve this thing.

We can fathom at least as much as the information provides us with.

I take the Bible's view of what a 'soul' is.

Are you saying that you take from the Bible the things which you interpret as holding up your particular beliefs re such matters?

No. "For dust you are and to dust you will return.” Gen 3:19. I give no interpretation with the fact we are just made of dust.

You have forgotten the YHVH element Gen 2:7 which allows the dust to animate and to think and to function as a living thing rather than simply be dust which has been formed into a body set - Adam's body set was no more Adam before The breath of YHVH gave life to the Cadaver, and "Adam" became Adam, experiencing being within the form YHVH created for that purpose?

Adam was "made" from more than just dust.

Are you willing to argue that The breath of YHVH also turns to dust?

Would it not be more appropriate to think that The breath of YHVH returns to YHVH and that is where the information of a personalities data of experience is stored, and how YHVH has access to it and can retrieve it?

Agreed?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #36]

A person that YHVH is going to make live again is not gone. They have a future. A person that YHVH is willing to never bring to life again is completely destroyed. They have no future.

It terms of economics, the idea that YHVH 'has a memory' would still equate to that being the Elohim Library Database, where such memory is stored/saved, and can be accessed and placed within any form YHVH might choose to insert it within.

Agreed?

Not enough information to know for sure. You're going off your knowledge of how a human brain works for recalling memories. There is no evidence that YHVH''s memory is built or works like ours.

I am simply going with the belief you have that YHVH has a memory. How it works isn't of issue, even that biblical evidence tells us that humans were created in the image of YHVH, and so YHVH might have some type of brain-like device which has the capability of storing memory and that is what you meant when you wrote;

The Bible doesn't give enough information as to how the memory of God works but I am satisfied with however He handles the lives of my dead loved ones and even everything that makes me, me if I die.

Given the information the Bible does provide, and knowing the huge numbers of individual personalities who have experienced life on earth to date, the data of experience of those personalities would have to be saved somewhere, so we can ascertain from that, that the Elohim databanks must be very impressive both in size and in function.

You don't think we can fathom how YHVH managers to do this, but we have enough information to assert that the database must be impressive for YHVH to be able to achieve this thing.

We can fathom at least as much as the information provides us with.

All speculation and guessing. Which doesn't equal fact.

I take the Bible's view of what a 'soul' is.

Are you saying that you take from the Bible the things which you interpret as holding up your particular beliefs re such matters?

No. "For dust you are and to dust you will return.” Gen 3:19. I give no interpretation with the fact we are just made of dust.

You have forgotten the YHVH element Gen 2:7 which allows the dust to animate and to think and to function as a living thing rather than simply be dust which has been formed into a body set - Adam's body set was no more Adam before The breath of YHVH gave life to the Cadaver, and "Adam" became Adam, experiencing being within the form YHVH created for that purpose?

Adam was "made" from more than just dust.

The Bible makes no indication of this.

Are you willing to argue that The breath of YHVH also turns to dust?

Would it not be more appropriate to think that The breath of YHVH returns to YHVH and that is where the information of a personalities data of experience is stored, and how YHVH has access to it and can retrieve it?

Agreed?

The breath that makes us alive doesn't belong to us. No more than electricity belongs to or even part of a radio to make it work. What makes us dust bunnies live is still a mystery that even scientist are struggling to understand as to why we can't bring someone back to life once a person is....wait for it....brain dead. However, who we are as a person is not kept in this 'breath'. While the breath God gave is necessary for us to live there is no indication that it is part of who we are as a person.

[William]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #39]


Not sure what you are witnessing here Timothy, but it does not appear to be YHVH.

William: We can fathom at least as much as the information provides us with.

Timothy: All speculation and guessing. Which doesn't equal fact.

Nor does it equal fiction.

Agreed?

You have forgotten the YHVH element Gen 2:7 which allows the dust to animate and to think and to function as a living thing rather than simply be dust which has been formed into a body set - Adam's body set was no more Adam before The breath of YHVH gave life to the Cadaver, and "Adam" became Adam, experiencing being within the form YHVH created for that purpose?
Adam was "made" from more than just dust.

The Bible makes no indication of this.

Gen 2:7 makes mention of this, and is from the Bible.

Are you willing to argue that The breath of YHVH also turns to dust?

Would it not be more appropriate to think that The breath of YHVH returns to YHVH and that is where the information of a personalities data of experience is stored, and how YHVH has access to it and can retrieve it?

Agreed?

The breath that makes us alive doesn't belong to us.

I am arguing that 'us' belong to 'it'. The personalities ['us'] which are grown and can only be grown by The breath of YHVH and are saved in The Elohim Databanks [the 'Us' re Gen 3:22] and thus - clearly - belong to YHVH.

No more than electricity belongs to or even part of a radio to make it work. What makes us dust bunnies live is still a mystery that even scientist are struggling to understand as to why we can't bring someone back to life once a person is....wait for it....brain dead.

You conflate the brain as being sentient, and thus when it is dead, so too is the information of the data of experience that the personality formed through.

Agreed?

What of such dust can YHVH use if it is scattered throughout the earth, having to be reconstructed without any memory?

However, who we are as a person is not kept in this 'breath'.

Far better to understand that the memory YHVH has, is not stored in the earth, but in the mind of YHVH - complete and immediately ready to be installed into whatever form YHVH chooses for it.

Agreed?

While the breath YHVH gave is necessary for us to live there is no indication that it is part of who we are as a person.

Not among those who believe otherwise. The 'indication' comes through aligning the information with the actuality and one who realizes the connect effectively activates it through that act of realization.

Meet and greet.

"YHVH - Timothy - Timothy - YHVH"

One cannot bear witness of YHVH without that. One is bearing witness of YHVH through the direct connection that The breath of YHVH provides to the individual personality grown from that Soul and belonging to YHVH.

The personality aware of this, is useful to YHVH in that regard, as such do not think of themselves as merely the product of a brain, but rather - a grown product of The Soul of Gardener YHVH - re The breath of YHVH ... rather than merely seeing The breath of YHVH as an "Electric Power Station" with no heart, mind or soul about it...

Agreed?