Paradise on Earth

[onewithhim]

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

[JehovahsWitness]

My argument is valid that "human beings" are "personalities" and that the human form is simply that which YHVH uses in order that human personalities develop through that medium, BECUASE it is the human personality which YHVH invests interaction with.

Well according to the bible human beings", human "personalities"* and the human form [the human flesh and blood physical body] all cease to exist at death¤.

* as in the personality of the individual
¤ the human body starts to decompose at death and eventually is broken down to dust (simple organic matter)

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2590]

Another JW argued;

YHVH had no reason to try out personalities in physical bodies to transfer into spirit beings. He made angels that have their own personalities, so what would be the point in making physical beings that would later morph into spirits like the angels?

My question to you, had to do with that belief.

I have never personally met anyone that believed in "trying out personalities in physical bodies to transfer into spirit beings" it sounds particularly ludicrous to me. It certainly is not scriptural.

I don't know whether the other JW was arguing it was scriptural or not.

My own view is that personalities do not grow without two factors.
1: The Breath of YHVH [to make the physical body alive.]
2: The Physical body.

The other JW argues that Angels have personalities, so it is not unreasonable ["ludicrous" as you put it] to think that a similar process happens and that Angels have some type of body-form other than physical, wherein the growth of an Angel personality occurs.

I have met people that believe that humans " morph into spirits" after they die, which is essentially the idea behind the pagan teaching of the immortality of the "soul". An equally unscriptural teaching.

I have not meet such folk either. I have met folk who think of themselves as "spirit beings within human form" the idea being that the personality merges/integrates with the spirit of YHVH [re the breath which gave life] and in doing so, they redefine their sense of self identity.

I think that aligns with what Christ spoke of in regard to humans integrating with YHVH - a "spirit" thing to do.

I do understand how someone might think that to be ludicrous - but unbelief is crippling in that regard...they are as they self identify to being. So if they prefer to think themselves as the body and not the soul, that is what they are, until such a time as they are shown otherwise.

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2591]

My argument is valid that "human beings" are "personalities" and that the human form is simply that which YHVH uses in order that human personalities develop through that medium, BECUASE it is the human personality which YHVH invests interaction with.

Well according to the bible human beings", human "personalities"* and the human form [the human flesh and blood physical body] all cease to exist at death¤.

* as in the personality of the individual
¤ the human body starts to decompose at death and eventually is broken down to dust (simple organic matter)

You are conflating 'according to some Christian interpretations of the Bible" with "according to the bible".

It is a common thing for many Christians to conflate their favored bible interpretations with the belief that in doing so, "according to the bible" becomes the catch-phrase for that.

That deceptive web - I am not enticed to join in with.

[JehovahsWitness]

You are conflating 'according to some Christian interpretations of the Bible" with "according to the bible".

The cessesion of a person's existence at death is a fundamental bible teachjng. Feel free to take your bible and attempt to prove otherwise. Be sure to quote your chapters and verses.




JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to

DEATH, THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...THE HUMAN SOUL

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2594]

You are conflating 'according to some Christian interpretations of the Bible" with "according to the bible".
It is a common thing for many Christians to conflate their favored bible interpretations with the belief that in doing so, "according to the bible" becomes the catch-phrase for that.

That deceptive web - I am not enticed to join in with.

The cessesion of a person's existence at death is a fundamental bible teachjng.

So you claim. I have seen not such evidence. Indeed, the evidence supports that the bible is not clear on what happens to a personality once the body set has died other than there appear to be beliefs about that, and depending on who one is reading, those beliefs come through in the writing.

When it get down to what the bible teaches fundamentally, it is not about the personalities fate upon the death of the person's body.

The fundamental thread throughout the bible is in regard to the extent of any personalities connection/communion with YHVH.

Feel free to take your bible and attempt to prove otherwise. Be sure to quote your chapters and verses.

I don't need to do this as it should be obvious to the reader that the fundamental theme of the bible is, as I stated above.

Do you disagree?

[JehovahsWitness]

The cessesion of a person's existence at death is a fundamental bible teaching.

So you claim. I have seen not such evidence.

WHAT ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE IS THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD?






CONSCIOUS THOUGHT CEASES AT DEATH : PSALMS 146:4

King James Bible
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

American Standard Version
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.

ALL CONSCIOUSNESS CEASES

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten. - Ecclesiastes 9:5 (NIV)

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his dust; In that very day his thoughts perish. - Psalms 146:4 (JPS Tanakh 1917)

MAN RETURNS TO THE CONDITION PRIOR TO HIS CREATION

GENESIS 3:19

In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you* were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return

* NOTE : God did not say: "...out ot dust YOUR PHYSICAL BODY was taken [but you, as a person existed elsewhere in a diffrent form]..., he said "you" ie the person, came from dust.


RELATED POSTS

Why is death likened to SLEEP in the bible?
viewtopic.php?p=1025031#p1025031

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

DEATH , THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ... NDE*

*Near Death Experiences

[JehovahsWitness]

The cessesion of a person's existence at death is a fundamental bible teaching.

So you claim. I have seen not such evidence.

Feel free to take your bible and attempt to prove otherwise. Be sure to quote your chapters and verses.

I don't need to do this ...

Duly noted.



JW

... why don't you quote that scripture that the reader can find truth to you claim?

To learn more please go to other posts related to

DEATH , THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...THE HUMAN SOUL

[JehovahsWitness]

WHAT IS THE FATE OF ONES PERSONALITY UPON DEATH?

One's "personality" is simply how one acts, thinks and feels. At death all action, all thought and all feelings of the person, cease.

ECCLESIASTES 9:10

Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going

.


The person ceases to exist along with his or her personalty.


JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SOULS, SPIRIT and ... THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2596]

To begin with, what we have there are samples specific to the individuals who wrote said samples, and the belief / world view those particular ones were coming from.

There are other samples which speak about death in another way...and these samples are verified through what folk have to tell us about their experiences re OOB and NDE, which at least show that when Jesus spoke about death, and he was not speaking about personalities returning to the dust of the Earth, it appears by the witness of those who share their own experiences, that Jesus is correct.

Readers familiar with what Jesus spoke about re death, should have no problem in knowing what I am referring to, and I am adamant that getting into religious arguments to do with what the different authors of the books which make up the bible believed, and which belief one should follow after and proclaim the "true" belief, is a deceptive web of silliness which I have no intention of getting caught up in.

The bible says many things, and it is up to the individual personality to go along with whatever they feel comfortable with. I am comfortable with the idea that when my body dies, my personality goes on to experience the next thing that it does - in the spirit that it is.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2590]

Another JW argued;

YHVH had no reason to try out personalities in physical bodies to transfer into spirit beings. He made angels that have their own personalities, so what would be the point in making physical beings that would later morph into spirits like the angels?

My question to you, had to do with that belief.

I have never personally met anyone that believed in "trying out personalities in physical bodies to transfer into spirit beings" it sounds particularly ludicrous to me. It certainly is not scriptural.

I don't know whether the other JW was arguing it was scriptural or not.

My own view is that personalities do not grow without two factors.
1: The Breath of YHVH [to make the physical body alive.]
2: The Physical body.

The other JW argues that Angels have personalities, so it is not unreasonable ["ludicrous" as you put it] to think that a similar process happens and that Angels have some type of body-form other than physical, wherein the growth of an Angel personality occurs.

I have met people that believe that humans " morph into spirits" after they die, which is essentially the idea behind the pagan teaching of the immortality of the "soul". An equally unscriptural teaching.

I have not meet such folk either. I have met folk who think of themselves as "spirit beings within human form" the idea being that the personality merges/integrates with the spirit of YHVH [re the breath which gave life] and in doing so, they redefine their sense of self identity.

I think that aligns with what Christ spoke of in regard to humans integrating with YHVH - a "spirit" thing to do.

I do understand how someone might think that to be ludicrous - but unbelief is crippling in that regard...they are as they self identify to being. So if they prefer to think themselves as the body and not the soul, that is what they are, until such a time as they are shown otherwise.

You completely misunderstood what I wrote, and no, I'm not going to go over it again. Think over what I posted a bit more. What I wrote is quite clear.