This my question:-
If a Christian infant dies, will it automatically gain entry to Heaven?
Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
Post #11boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 1:48 amSure, but it would be better if there was a God that allowed babies into Heaven. That's a better God.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:52 pmI dont know what other holy books say, which is why I presented the biblical position. (I take it that was appropriate since this subforum is Christianity & Apologetics )
JW
I appreciate you are sharing your opinion. I personally do not agree with you. Saying its better that babies go to heaven is like saying it's better if babies are allowed in go to grad school or it's better babies are allowed to perform heart surgery.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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POI
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Re: Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
Post #12I have to ask... Then why does God permit 'evil'? Such a conclusion looks to contradict the argument, that evil is permitted by God, due to the necessity to allow for 'free will'.
What exactly does God do with the ones, which were never given the "free will" to make conscious decisions?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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boatsnguitars
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Re: Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
Post #13JW's apparently believe that before the Age of Consent, babies are simply killed off and thrown into Gehenna.POI wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 1:04 pmI have to ask... Then why does God permit 'evil'? Such a conclusion looks to contradict the argument, that evil is permitted by God, due to the necessity to allow for 'free will'.
What exactly does God do with the ones, which were never given the "free will" to make conscious decisions?
Such a strange religion. you make something up that sounds cruel right from the start? Babies don't go to heaven, only 144000 will make it to be special, etc.
It sounds like cruelty is the point...
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
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Ross
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Re: Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
Post #14Here is an example of how Jehovah's Witnesses view infants and children from my carefully recorded diaries as an ex member of the Watchtower Organization:
Our group leader had three young children; two boys, and a girl, who at the time was about seven years old and a little overweight. After completing the field service ( door to door ministry ) work in the streets to which we had been assigned, a few of us were standing on a street corner waiting for further instructions, and this young girl couldn’t take her eyes off Salena. After about a minute or so, Simon focussed his attention towards this young girl and said:
“What are you looking at?”
“Well,” she replied innocently with a smile, “it’s just that we don’t see many people her colour around here.”
Simon stared at this little girl and then barked:
“WE don’t see many FAT little girls like you either.”
I stood there a little shocked at this. But the blunt rebuke was somewhat typical of the lack of status and importance in which children were perceived among most Jehovah’s Witnesses, though it was unusual for such a sentiment to be expressed or outwardly displayed in this visible and audible manner.
Most people of virtually every faith and religion would agree that children represent pure innocence that has not yet been adulterated by the education and social baggage that must later accompany them. They are the most precious and wonderful gifts that one can receive as blessings from God. Usually small children get showered with love and affection, with the knowledge that one's time with their angelic innocence will soon pass as they grow. But in the society structure of the Watchtower organization, this perception was to some degree somewhat reversed, in that children were viewed as less important and precious than adults, only gradually growing in worth and value as they developed theocratic minds through religious education.
The words from Simon though were particularly rude, and I doubted very much if he would have uttered them had the father been present. Some months later, this girl was asked by her mother to draw a sketch of Simon, whereupon she drew a metal robot, indicating his particularly emotionless clinical and mechanical personality.
Our group leader had three young children; two boys, and a girl, who at the time was about seven years old and a little overweight. After completing the field service ( door to door ministry ) work in the streets to which we had been assigned, a few of us were standing on a street corner waiting for further instructions, and this young girl couldn’t take her eyes off Salena. After about a minute or so, Simon focussed his attention towards this young girl and said:
“What are you looking at?”
“Well,” she replied innocently with a smile, “it’s just that we don’t see many people her colour around here.”
Simon stared at this little girl and then barked:
“WE don’t see many FAT little girls like you either.”
I stood there a little shocked at this. But the blunt rebuke was somewhat typical of the lack of status and importance in which children were perceived among most Jehovah’s Witnesses, though it was unusual for such a sentiment to be expressed or outwardly displayed in this visible and audible manner.
Most people of virtually every faith and religion would agree that children represent pure innocence that has not yet been adulterated by the education and social baggage that must later accompany them. They are the most precious and wonderful gifts that one can receive as blessings from God. Usually small children get showered with love and affection, with the knowledge that one's time with their angelic innocence will soon pass as they grow. But in the society structure of the Watchtower organization, this perception was to some degree somewhat reversed, in that children were viewed as less important and precious than adults, only gradually growing in worth and value as they developed theocratic minds through religious education.
The words from Simon though were particularly rude, and I doubted very much if he would have uttered them had the father been present. Some months later, this girl was asked by her mother to draw a sketch of Simon, whereupon she drew a metal robot, indicating his particularly emotionless clinical and mechanical personality.
Out of the eater came something to eat,
And out of the strong came something sweet.
And out of the strong came something sweet.
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
Post #15I cannot imagine who that is "apparent" to apart from yourself, I have never met anyone in my life that has voiced such a conclusion.boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 1:44 pm
JW's apparently believe that before the Age of Consent, babies are simply killed off and thrown into Gehenna.
I feel confident that regular posters here have good enough sense to simply ask any of the Jehovah's Witnesses present "If you do not believe babies go to heaven, what do you believe happens to them if they die?" should they be curious on the subject.I find its always best to ask people directly rather than make inaccurate assumotions and guesses about what they believe. Oftentimes what people put down to "strangeness" about others is simply misinformation or disinformation.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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boatsnguitars
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Re: Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
Post #16Sorry, it's wrong of me.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 2:52 pmI cannot imagine who that is "apparent" to apart from yourself, I have never met anyone in my life that has voiced such a conclusion.boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 1:44 pm
JW's apparently believe that before the Age of Consent, babies are simply killed off and thrown into Gehenna.
JW
Let me rephrase: Can you say with absolute certainty that your God doesn't throw souls in Gehenna if they don't form the blood oath (or whatever you do to join the gang) before the Age of Consent?
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
Post #17No problem. Apology accepted. I will be clear, although we do not believe babies go to heaven we do NOT believe that before the Age of Consent, babies are simply thrown into Gehenna .
JWJehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 2:52 pmI feel confident that regular posters here have good enough sense to simply ask any of the Jehovah's Witnesses present "If you do not believe babies go to heaven, what do you believe happens to them if they die?" should they be curious on the subject.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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boatsnguitars
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Re: Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
Post #18Well, funny thing, I don't either...JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 4:21 pmNo problem. Apology accepted. I will be clear, although we do not believe babies go to heaven we do NOT believe that before the Age of Consent, babies are simply thrown into Gehenna .
But, the funny thing about beliefs is that they can be wrong. Are you sure your God doesn't do that? Can you confirm it with Him? After all, he doesn't have a great track record...
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
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boatsnguitars
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Re: Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
Post #19Well, funny thing, I don't either...JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 4:21 pmNo problem. Apology accepted. I will be clear, although we do not believe babies go to heaven we do NOT believe that before the Age of Consent, babies are simply thrown into Gehenna .
But, the funny thing about beliefs is that they can be wrong. Are you sure your God doesn't do that? Can you confirm it with Him? After all, he doesn't have a great track record...
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
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oldbadger
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Re: Do Christian babies all gain entry to Heaven?
Post #20Absolutely!boatsnguitars wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 1:48 amSure, but it would be better if there was a God that allowed babies into Heaven. That's a better God.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:52 pmI dont know what other holy books say, which is why I presented the biblical position. (I take it that was appropriate since this subforum is Christianity & Apologetics )
JW
