GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

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Eddie Ramos
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GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

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Post by Eddie Ramos »

Many religions and denominations take pride, even boast of how large their followers are in numbers and the rate at which they are growing. But the thread of truth that runs throughout the whole of the scriptures is that God has always worked through the minority and never through the majority. This teaches us that when people look at their large numbers and equate that with their reasoning of God working through them, well the Bible teaches quite the opposite.

There are numerous accounts in the Bible which teach this truth, but my favorite is regarding the 400 prophets of Israel who were called to inquire of God whether king Ahab should go into battle and obtain victory or not. And since these 400 prophets were prophets of Israel, and Israel was recognized as the people of God, then surely these 400 prophets were true prophets of God, right? Especially since they all came to the same conclusion and spoke with one voice unto the king saying that God would surely give this king victory. Yet one one man is called to see what God had to say and he told the king that the king would die in battle and that these 400 prophets were false prophets.

But what's more, is that these 400 prophets truly believed that they were true children of God and that the one lone prophet wasn't. This is a tremendous warning to those who find comfort and assurance in the size of their religious group who claim the name of God. Anyone can read this account in 1 Kings 22.

What do you think about God always working through the minority? What do you think about those groups who firmly believe they are the people of God but are in fact not?

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Re: GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

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Post by Purple Knight »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:11 pm What do you think about God always working through the minority?
That it's a truth but it's not confined to being a religious one. Numbers necessitate structure. Structure means power. Power structures incentivise people who are good at getting, and keeping, power. It's really this simple.
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:11 pmWhat do you think about those groups who firmly believe they are the people of God but are in fact not?
Anyone might be right, but not everyone can be, since there are points of fundamental disagreement. What I think about it, is that it would probably help if people who disagree, scraped away the chaff, and closely examined the germ of fundamental disagreement.

I'm not talking about deciphering some unknowable being's wishes. You can't, even if it does exist. It's too far above us, for us to understand what it wants.

I'm talking about looking at what your religion says you ought to do, and why. A fair god does not expect us to be gods, because we aren't. If there's disagreement over what is moral and what is not, according to us humans, since you are a human, you can check that for yourself.

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Re: GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

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Post by Eddie Ramos »

Purple Knight wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 9:22 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:11 pm What do you think about God always working through the minority?
That it's a truth but it's not confined to being a religious one. Numbers necessitate structure. Structure means power. Power structures incentivise people who are good at getting, and keeping, power. It's really this simple.
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:11 pmWhat do you think about those groups who firmly believe they are the people of God but are in fact not?
Anyone might be right, but not everyone can be, since there are points of fundamental disagreement. What I think about it, is that it would probably help if people who disagree, scraped away the chaff, and closely examined the germ of fundamental disagreement.

I'm not talking about deciphering some unknowable being's wishes. You can't, even if it does exist. It's too far above us, for us to understand what it wants.

I'm talking about looking at what your religion says you ought to do, and why. A fair god does not expect us to be gods, because we aren't. If there's disagreement over what is moral and what is not, according to us humans, since you are a human, you can check that for yourself.
By your reply, I assume you don't believe in God nor the Bible as God's Holy Word. So, I'm not sure how productive this conversation will be. But, man, in his own thoughts, thinks of himself to be a moral rational creature. But the Bible reveals the true nature of man's sinful condition. Perhaps this is why some utterly reject the idea of God, because if they can convince themselves they are right, then they can do that which is right in their own eyes and not be accountable to anyone for their sin.

Proverbs 21:2 (KJV 1900)
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes:
But the LORD pondereth the hearts.


And the reason why God looks at the hearts of men is because the heart is that which either desperately corrupt with sin or pure and clean because someone has paid for that sin on their behalf.

Jeremiah 17:9–10 (KJV 1900)
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Ezekiel 11:19–20 (KJV 1900)
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.


By the way, a fair God would have condemned everyone to their just and due punishment which is death. But a merciful God showed mercy to some so that not all perish in their sins.

Ezra 9:13 (KJV 1900)
And after all that is come upon us for our evil deeds, and for our great trespass, seeing that thou our God hast punished us less than our iniquities deserve, and hast given us such deliverance as this;


Psalm 130:1–5 (KJV 1900)

1  Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD.
2  Lord, hear my voice:
Let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.
If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities,
O Lord, who shall stand?

4  But there is forgiveness with thee,
That thou mayest be feared.
5  I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait,
And in his word do I hope.


The God of the Bible demands perfection because he is a perfect God. He demands perfect obedience to his law, the Bible. yet, because of our sin corrupted bodies, none can attain such perfection. This is why we pleaded with God for mercy and for salvation, so that in our soul existence, we would be perfect and keep the commandments of God perfectly, just as he commanded. This is what God, in his mercy and grace, has done for those he has chosen to save from among the people of the world. These are the elect, chosen for no other reason that God's good pleasure.

Ephesians 1:5 (KJV 1900)
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

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Re: GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

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Post by Purple Knight »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:24 pmBut, man, in his own thoughts, thinks of himself to be a moral rational creature. But the Bible reveals the true nature of man's sinful condition. Perhaps this is why some utterly reject the idea of God, because if they can convince themselves they are right, then they can do that which is right in their own eyes and not be accountable to anyone for their sin.
Here's the thing though: If we're so sinful that we can't know what is good without somebody telling us, for all we know, the thing we think is God, is actually the Devil. If we can't judge morality at all, we're likely to be taken in by the first evil being that tells us we're doing right. If we can't know morality, it would be better to build a life on fairness instead, because it requires no moral knowledge to treat people equally.

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Re: GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

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Purple Knight wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 4:21 pm
Here's the thing though: If we're so sinful that we can't know what is good without somebody telling us, for all we know, the thing we think is God, is actually the Devil. If we can't judge morality at all, we're likely to be taken in by the first evil being that tells us we're doing right. If we can't know morality, it would be better to build a life on fairness instead, because it requires no moral knowledge to treat people equally.
This is strangely good perspective. The whole world is deceived. Yes. Mankind is so sinful, so far from the Creator, it is like the days of Noah worldwide today - and most have been taken in , most have been raised in such sin they have no idea of truth.

I don't know about a life of fairness. That might or might not be good or okay to start with and to continue until better is known.

With (if) a person still has a conscience, a God-given conscience, they could simply do what they realize is right, and avoid what they realize is wrong.

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Re: GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:11 pm What do you think about God always working through the minority?
I don't think God is looking for a minority (He desires all people be saved and sent his Son to redeem all of humanity) but the bible indicates that salvation will indeed only be attained by the minority of people (see Matt 7: 13,14)

The REASONS for this are multiple and include:


1. The world is ruled by Satan and the majority if people blinded to religious truth by him

2. True worship requires sacrifice and a mode of life that runs in opposition to what most people desire

3. According to scripture, all true Christians face some kind of persecution for their faith.

Jesus indicated true Christianity would be identifiable as an organised religion but not that it would be a proportionally large one. In short, when looking for the true religion do not look for a "Goliath", look for a "David" (effective but small).

There are only about 8.5 million Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide



JW


FURTHER READING : World Report of Jehovah’s Witnesses
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/worldwide/
To read more please go to other posts related to...

CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS , RELIGIOUS TRUTH and ... JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

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Servant77 wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:40 pmWith (if) a person still has a conscience, a God-given conscience, they could simply do what they realize is right, and avoid what they realize is wrong.
You need a conscience that is reliable to know and do good. It is absolutely necessary even if you have God. You do not absolutely need God if you have a conscience, but that's not to say it can't help. Religion can take on the role of adding wisdom to intuition, but if the wisdom doesn't track after honest introspection, and line up with what your conscience tells you, then you are probably worshiping evil.

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Re: GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

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Post by myth-one.com »



As compared to man's theory of combat, God takes a totally opposite approach when fighting battles. Man cannot have too many soldiers or too much equipment, whereas God always wants His side to be the decisive underdog.

Likewise, God chooses the most unlikely candidates when selecting individuals to perform leadership roles. In the motion picture "The Ten Commandments," Charlton Heston played the part of Moses. He led the children of Israel out of Egyptian bondage with his booming voice and commanding physical appearance. Would those doing the casting have chosen the actual Moses of the Bible to play himself in the movie? Absolutely not! He did not come close to being the overpowering "Moses" required by the movie script! When God called Moses, Moses protested that he was "slow of speech":

And Moses said unto the Lord, O my Lord. I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou has spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue. (Exodus 4:10)

In fact, God allowed Moses to take his brother Aaron who spoke well, along with him to be his mouth:

And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth... (Exodus 4:16)

Why does God choose the underdogs of mankind for His purposes? Because observers of the resulting victories and successes will realize that they were not defeated by the puny humans gathered against them, but they were defeated because the puny forces gathered against them had God on their side. They did not win the battle, God did!

More details at God's Underdogs

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Re: GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

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Post by Eddie Ramos »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:58 pm
Eddie Ramos wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:11 pm What do you think about God always working through the minority?
I don't think God is looking for a minority (He desires all people be saved and sent his Son to redeem all of humanity) but the bible indicates that salvation will indeed only be attained by the minority of people (see Matt 7: 13,14)
So you bring up a point necessary to address. The majority of Christianity, worldwide, holds to a free will gospel, a universal atonement, and a gospel that declares that God loves everyone and wants everyone to be saved. Very few Christians (by comparison) teach that God is in complete control of his own salvation program. From foreknowledge to the predestination, to the election, to the calling, to the justifying, to the drawing, to the saving, etc. And that man had absolutely no say in the matter whatsoever.

Now, the first gospel sounds very pleasing to the ears of the masses (saved or unsaved) and the latter gospel sounds very offensive to both. Yet, when we seek to harmonize everything in the scriptures regarding God's salvation process, we find harmony only with the latter and not the former gospel. Which teaches us that those who hold to the former gospel described above, are in fact teaching a false gospel. And God told us that we would recognize false prophets by their fruits (meaning by what comes from their mouth).

Matthew 7:15–20 (KJV 1900)
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


What are these "fruits" that Christ is speaking of? It is the gospel that comes forth from our mouth.

Luke 6:44–45 (KJV 1900)
For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.


A false gospel, is like a crooked foundation, where those who build on that foundation, will develop doctrines according that match the foundation. The tragedy is that most Christians or religious people, firmly believe that they are among the children of God and the sad truth is that they are not. This next passage testifies to this as it's focusing, not on the whole of mankind, but the whole of those who think they are saved but never were.

Matthew 7:21–23 (KJV 1900)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


This is why the account of 1 Kings 22 is such a powerful account hat attests to this biblical truth. The minority are those whom God has chosen out of the many.

Matthew 22:14 (KJV 1900)
For many are called, but few are chosen
.

God never desired to save all people and failed to do so. He never redeemed all of humanity, else if everyone's sins were paid for, how could God punish man for sin that was already paid for by Christ? That is double punishment which is taught no where in the Bible. That type of gospel does not harmonize with the whole of the scriptures, but is only derived from selected scriptures here and there which are taken out of the context of the Bible as one whole truth.

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:58 pm The REASONS for this are multiple and include:

1. The world is ruled by Satan and the majority if people blinded to religious truth by him
This is the most commonly held view by Christians and religions of the world, that Satan has blinded people from the truth of the gospel. Yet this view is completely incorrect because it's not in harmony with the scriptures as a whole.

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Satan is not the god of this world, GOD is the GOD of this world. We know this because no where in the scriptures are we told that Satan has the power to blind anyone. Yet we have an abundance of scriptures that teach us that GOD has the power to blind and indeed has blinded people from believing the truth of the gospel. But this way of understanding 2 Cor 4:4 completely contradicts man's free will, God wants everyone to be saved kind of gospel. Yet this is the gospel of the scriptures.

John 12:37–41 (KJV 1900)
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He (GOD) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.


This is the very same reason Christ spoke in parables and without a parable he did not speak.

Matthew 13:10–15 (KJV 1900)
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias (This is the same prophecy as John 12), which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed (because God has blinded them); lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


God's blinding prevented them from seeing and thus believing. This was done on purpose by God.

Isaiah 6:8–11 (KJV 1900)
8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me (to preach the gospel). 9 And he said, Go, and tell this people,
Hear ye indeed, but understand not;
And see ye indeed, but perceive not
.
10  Make the heart of this people fat,
And make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
11  Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered,
Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant,
And the houses without man,
And the land be utterly desolate
,


The truth of the gospel is indeed offensive to the ears of those who do not have the Spirit of God.

John 6:60–65 (KJV 1900)
Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:58 pm 2. True worship requires sacrifice and a mode of life that runs in opposition to what most people desire
True worship requires first and foremost the Holy Spirit within the individual. Without the Holy Spirit it is impossible to please God, no matter how close one tries to live a life of self sacrifice.

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV 1900)
But without faith (faith is a fruit of the Spirit) it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Romans 8:9 (KJV 1900)
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:58 pm 3. According to scripture, all true Christians face some kind of persecution for their faith.[/indent]
This is true, but not all who face persecutions for the sake of the gospel are true Christians.

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Re: GOD ALWAYS WORKS THROUGH THE MINORITY

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Eddie Ramos wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:13 pm


2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV 1900)
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


Satan is not the god of this world, GOD is the GOD of this world. We know this because no where in the scriptures are we told that Satan has the power to blind anyone. Yet we have an abundance of scriptures that teach us that GOD has the power to blind and indeed has blinded people from believing the truth of the gospel. But this way of understanding 2 Cor 4:4 completely contradicts man's free will, God wants everyone to be saved kind of gospel. Yet this is the gospel of the scriptures.

Who are you suggesting is the god of this world refered to here by the Apostle Paul?



To learn more please go to other posts related to ....

ANGELS , DEMONS and ... SATAN THE DEVIL
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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