Jesus is God - firstborn psalm 89

[Wootah]

27Indeed, I myself made him the firstborn,
the highest of the kings of the earth.
28 I will show my gracious love toward him forever,
since my covenant is securely established with him.
29 I will establish his dynasty forever,
and his throne as long as heaven endures.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ISV

The Son is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created,
things visible and invisible,
whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers.
All things have been created through him and for him.
17 He himself existed before anything else did,
and he holds all things together.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ISV

In psalm 89 God is talking about David (verse 3) and making David the highest of the kings of the Earth. The in verse 27 God calls David is firstborn. We know that David was not firstborn in family and this means that firstborn means the one God has chosen to be pre-eminent.

In Colossians we can now understand that firstborn is how God views Jesus, pre-eminent.

Is this proof that since firstborn is used about David and we know he was not first born physically that the Bible is not claiming Jesus is created by God as a first child but being given pre-eminence above all things?

youtube:

[Wootah]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #10]

Wrong on all counts.

All the Bible points to Jesus. I think nearly every major prophecy and type points to and is fulfilled in Jesus. Worth a seperate debate.

The psalm specifically proves to you that firstborn is about pre-eminence.

The meaning of firstborn is exactly what God intends and also the usage is the common one. The heir is the firstborn.

What it doesn't mean is the first child. It just happens that fallen man doesn't look to God's usage and wisdom but fallen man appoints his first son and not who is best for the job.

[JehovahsWitness]

.

..The meaning of firstborn is exactly what God intends and also the usage is the common one.

That is my position. Yours is that the bible somehow has changed the lexical meaning based on your misinterpretation of a SINGLE verse ignoring both the context and the wider biblical and common usage of the word.

FIRSTBORN means the First (temporal) individual born. Not the preeminent one born according to the bible usage.

The Greek translated into the English FIRSTBORN is prototokos. The word occurs 128 times in the Septuagint and 8 times in the NT. A check in any concordance of the OT for the use of the word “firstborn” will show that it is predominantly used to indicate temporal priority. For example of this usage is Joshua 6:26, where the “firstborn” is contrasted with the “youngest” child.

So the bible usage of the word itself is very clear.

As I have expained in post #10 , Psalm 89:27, refers to a position is given to David. "I shall make him My first-born" as the NASB says. Other versions say that this position of "firstborn" was by God to David as of "appoint[ment],"-NIV and NBV and a "place[ment]"-NWT (Hebrew:'natan'.) But the status of Jesus Christ as God's "firstborn" is never said to be one of "appointment" or "placement." Unlike David, Jesus is literally, not figuratively, God's firstborn.

True, Jesus Christ is pre-eminent among those who are created, but this pre-eminence comes from him literally, really being, the first one of God's sons. So the word "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 has a temporal sense, a sense that occurs well over a hundred times in the Bible, including Romans 8:29 and Hebrews 1:6, both in reference to Jesus Christ.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


RELATED POSTS

What did Paul mean when he refered to Jesus as the "firstborn of all creation" (Col 1:15)?
viewtopic.php?p=867218#p867218

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

COLOSSIANS 1 v15-17 , JESUS ROLE IN CREATION and ... "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

[Wootah]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

Jesus can't be first born literally. That's Adam.

https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-45.htm

English Standard Version
Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit

Bible causes Jesus the last Adam.

First becomes last, last becomes first.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

Jesus can't be first born literally. That's Adam.

JESUS as the Word existed PRIOR to Adam. Indeed , Jesus was with His Father in heaven when God created Adam. It was to Jesus in his prehuman existence , that Jehovah (YHWH) uttered the word "Let US make man in OUR image".

So it was Jesus (THE WORD) not Adam that was God's firstborn son. Adam was Gods first HUMAN son.


JW

RELATED POSTS

Did God create "a copy" of Himself in Jesus?
viewtopic.php?p=1136290#p1136290

[Wootah]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

Jesus can't be first born literally. That's Adam.

JESUS as the Word existed PRIOR to Adam. Indeed , Jesus was with His Father in heaven when God created Adam. It was to Jesus in his prehuman existence , that Jehovah (YHWH) uttered the word "Let US make man in OUR image".

So it was Jesus (THE WORD) not Adam that was God's firstborn son. Adam was Gods first HUMAN son.


JW

RELATED POSTS

Did God create "a copy" of Himself in Jesus?
viewtopic.php?p=1136290#p1136290

Well the evidence is there. God shows his usage in psalm 89 is that first born is not first child but one chosen for preeminence/heir/as king.

And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
the most exalted of the kings of the earth.

It even shows that appoint to be firstborn means most exalted king.

FYI ... Even the JW Bible says

27 And I will place him as firstborn,+
The highest of the kings of the earth.+

God used the word firstborn with my definition and God's usage should dictate the meaning - right?

[JehovahsWitness]

God used the word firstborn with my definition and God's usage should dictate the meaning - right?

You are repeating yourself. This points has been explained ....

Here ---> post #10

And here ---> post #12


JW




FURTHER READING
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.fr/ ... l-115.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200312032221 ... otokos.htm

[1213]

...
Is this proof that since firstborn is used about David and we know he was not first born physically that the Bible is not claiming Jesus is created by God as a first child but being given pre-eminence above all things?

I think it means Jesus is created and first born of all creation. But, what do you think about it saying Jesus is the image of God?

[Wootah]

...
Is this proof that since firstborn is used about David and we know he was not first born physically that the Bible is not claiming Jesus is created by God as a first child but being given pre-eminence above all things?

I think it means Jesus is created and first born of all creation. But, what do you think about it saying Jesus is the image of God?

I think you need to make a new years resolution to stong man the other side and demonstrate you understand what they are arguing. It feels like you skip over the argument. You certainly haven't posted anything that constitutes a debate for your view.