Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?
For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.
Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
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Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #1In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #891I am not preaching, my evidence is from the Word of God of which I already had explained, and I know you won't believe my arguments, just like us of yours. And I believe this thread refers to Biblical teachings.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 5:45 amThe forum is a debate forum, not about posting your beliefs and no arguments or evidence for. Preaching without anything more is against Tos.Capbook wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:33 amThe thread is about Grace/Belief/Works, and how to be save. I believe it refer to Biblical teaching.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 7:38 am As said before, it is not about what you personally (appealing to Bibletext or not, as though that proved anything) want to go for and believe, but what evidence - based and logical arguments you can post.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #892If you would allow, I'll prefer my suggested option that some readers might have the same belief like mine. Could select a specific option.
Thanks.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #893All, who have read the Bible, and who are also believers, do not agree with you. Which, again, demonstrates my point. Even if you are ready and willing, the Bible is not clear to the path for salvation. Is God actually pleased with his provided communication?Capbook wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:57 amIf you would allow, I'll prefer my suggested option that some readers might have the same belief like mine. Could select a specific option.
Thanks.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #894Not preaching yet, but just quoting Bibletext and faithclaims with no argument comes close. It's friendly suggestions to do a bit more. What you and i believe or don't doesn't matter, but the discussions we make, that, and not Bible teachings, is what the forum is about.Capbook wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:53 amI am not preaching, my evidence is from the Word of God of which I already had explained, and I know you won't believe my arguments, just like us of yours. And I believe this thread refers to Biblical teachings.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 5:45 amThe forum is a debate forum, not about posting your beliefs and no arguments or evidence for. Preaching without anything more is against Tos.Capbook wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:33 amThe thread is about Grace/Belief/Works, and how to be save. I believe it refer to Biblical teaching.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 7:38 am As said before, it is not about what you personally (appealing to Bibletext or not, as though that proved anything) want to go for and believe, but what evidence - based and logical arguments you can post.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #895Of course, there are those who may not agree with me, we differs, proven to your made choices.POI wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 2:06 amAll, who have read the Bible, and who are also believers, do not agree with you. Which, again, demonstrates my point. Even if you are ready and willing, the Bible is not clear to the path for salvation. Is God actually pleased with his provided communication?Capbook wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:57 amIf you would allow, I'll prefer my suggested option that some readers might have the same belief like mine. Could select a specific option.
Thanks.
I believe God completely written all for man's salvation. We have just finite minds and differs in understanding.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #896It was just on that post that I summarized my explanation, if you read our prior exchanges you may see my explanation of my beliefs basing on the quoted Bible text.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 7:05 amNot preaching yet, but just quoting Bibletext and faithclaims with no argument comes close. It's friendly suggestions to do a bit more. What you and i believe or don't doesn't matter, but the discussions we make, that, and not Bible teachings, is what the forum is about.Capbook wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:53 amI am not preaching, my evidence is from the Word of God of which I already had explained, and I know you won't believe my arguments, just like us of yours. And I believe this thread refers to Biblical teachings.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 5:45 amThe forum is a debate forum, not about posting your beliefs and no arguments or evidence for. Preaching without anything more is against Tos.Capbook wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:33 amThe thread is about Grace/Belief/Works, and how to be save. I believe it refer to Biblical teaching.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 7:38 am As said before, it is not about what you personally (appealing to Bibletext or not, as though that proved anything) want to go for and believe, but what evidence - based and logical arguments you can post.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #897Very well. The point is made that citing Bibletext as a basis for faith or citing faith as support for Bibletext gets us nowhere and comes close to preaching.Capbook wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 2:57 amIt was just on that post that I summarized my explanation, if you read our prior exchanges you may see my explanation of my beliefs basing on the quoted Bible text.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 7:05 amNot preaching yet, but just quoting Bibletext and faithclaims with no argument comes close. It's friendly suggestions to do a bit more. What you and i believe or don't doesn't matter, but the discussions we make, that, and not Bible teachings, is what the forum is about.Capbook wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:53 amI am not preaching, my evidence is from the Word of God of which I already had explained, and I know you won't believe my arguments, just like us of yours. And I believe this thread refers to Biblical teachings.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 5:45 amThe forum is a debate forum, not about posting your beliefs and no arguments or evidence for. Preaching without anything more is against Tos.Capbook wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:33 amThe thread is about Grace/Belief/Works, and how to be save. I believe it refer to Biblical teaching.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 7:38 am As said before, it is not about what you personally (appealing to Bibletext or not, as though that proved anything) want to go for and believe, but what evidence - based and logical arguments you can post.
Explanations as to why you trust either are welcome.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #898Then the answer should be A), shouldn't it?Capbook wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 2:51 amOf course, there are those who may not agree with me, we differs, proven to your made choices.POI wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 2:06 amAll, who have read the Bible, and who are also believers, do not agree with you. Which, again, demonstrates my point. Even if you are ready and willing, the Bible is not clear to the path for salvation. Is God actually pleased with his provided communication?Capbook wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:57 amIf you would allow, I'll prefer my suggested option that some readers might have the same belief like mine. Could select a specific option.
Thanks.
I believe God completely written all for man's salvation. We have just finite minds and differs in understanding.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #899My reply you highlighted does not fit to A).POI wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 9:59 amThen the answer should be A), shouldn't it?Capbook wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 2:51 amOf course, there are those who may not agree with me, we differs, proven to your made choices.POI wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 2:06 amAll, who have read the Bible, and who are also believers, do not agree with you. Which, again, demonstrates my point. Even if you are ready and willing, the Bible is not clear to the path for salvation. Is God actually pleased with his provided communication?Capbook wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:57 amIf you would allow, I'll prefer my suggested option that some readers might have the same belief like mine. Could select a specific option.
Thanks.
I believe God completely written all for man's salvation. We have just finite minds and differs in understanding.
G) If you would allow. As my belief just don't fit to just one of your made choices.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?
Post #900Of course my belief in God and to where my argument is from His teachings. Just like you, your belief (faith) is from some scientists who believe that their mind can grasp truth. You believe in science, you believe that God doesn't exist. That is not the only irony that atheism offer of no ground for faith that they themselves cannot do without.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 6:21 amVery well. The point is made that citing Bibletext as a basis for faith or citing faith as support for Bibletext gets us nowhere and comes close to preaching.Capbook wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 2:57 amIt was just on that post that I summarized my explanation, if you read our prior exchanges you may see my explanation of my beliefs basing on the quoted Bible text.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 7:05 amNot preaching yet, but just quoting Bibletext and faithclaims with no argument comes close. It's friendly suggestions to do a bit more. What you and i believe or don't doesn't matter, but the discussions we make, that, and not Bible teachings, is what the forum is about.Capbook wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 1:53 amI am not preaching, my evidence is from the Word of God of which I already had explained, and I know you won't believe my arguments, just like us of yours. And I believe this thread refers to Biblical teachings.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 5:45 amThe forum is a debate forum, not about posting your beliefs and no arguments or evidence for. Preaching without anything more is against Tos.Capbook wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:33 amThe thread is about Grace/Belief/Works, and how to be save. I believe it refer to Biblical teaching.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 7:38 am As said before, it is not about what you personally (appealing to Bibletext or not, as though that proved anything) want to go for and believe, but what evidence - based and logical arguments you can post.
Explanations as to why you trust either are welcome.