Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9571
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
1) So Saul was a top Jew and would never blaspheme against YHWH.

Historical Background: Saul (later Paul) was a Pharisee of the strictest sect, born a Roman citizen but raised in the Jewish tradition of Tarsus. He studied directly under Gamaliel, the grandson of Hillel and one of the most revered rabbis in the Sanhedrin (Acts 22:3; cf. Acts 5:34-39). Gamaliel's school emphasized meticulous Torah observance, and Saul describes himself as "advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers" (Galatians 1:14, emphasis added).
Zeal Against "Blasphemy": As a Pharisee, Saul's mission was to purge Israel of anything that could defile the covenant or dishonor YHWH. Blasphemy was the ultimate Jewish taboo—punishable by stoning (Leviticus 24:16; cf. the trial of Jesus in Mark 14:64). Saul hunted perceived blasphemers: "I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death... I went to foreign cities to imprison many... I cast my vote against them when they were put to death" (Acts 26:10-11; cf. Acts 8:1-3; 9:1-2). He saw himself as God's enforcer, breathing "threats and murder against the disciples" (Acts 9:1).
Key Implication: A man like Saul would never intentionally blaspheme YHWH. His actions were the opposite: hyper-vigilant defense of God's honor. If he thought he was serving God, he couldn't have been blaspheming—unless his target wasn't just a "false messiah" but God incarnate.

2) Paul's Post-Conversion Confession—"I Was Once a Blasphemer" (1 Timothy 1:13)
The Text in Context: In 1 Timothy 1:12-14, Paul thanks Christ for his mercy, then pivots to his past: "Even though I was once a blasphemer (blasphēmos) and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly..."This isn't casual regret; it's a radical re-evaluation. Paul isn't confessing generic sins—he's using loaded Jewish terminology. Blasphēmia in the Septuagint (Greek Old Testament) and rabbinic thought always targets God directly: cursing His name, attributing evil to Him, or rejecting His revelation (e.g., Numbers 15:30; 2 Kings 19:4).
Cross-reference Acts 9:4-5 (Saul's Damascus Road encounter): Jesus asks, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" Saul's reply—"Who are you, Lord?"—reveals the divine identity. Jesus identifies as the one Saul is attacking.

3) The Twist: As Saul, he believed he was honoring YHWH by crushing the "Nazarene sect" (Acts 24:5). But now, he sees those actions as blasphemy against God. Why? Because the early church's message was that Jesus is YHWH's divine presence (e.g., Jesus' claims in John 8:58; 10:30). Persecuting Christians = persecuting the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27), which Paul now equates with assaulting God Himself.

4)The Paradox Resolved: How could a Gamaliel-trained Pharisee blaspheme without knowing it? Only if his "zeal" was misdirected at the wrong target—God Himself in the person of Jesus. Paul isn't saying he slandered YHWH's name verbally; he's saying his violent opposition to Jesus was, in truth, reviling the divine Son. This mirrors Jesus' warning: "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven" (Matthew 12:32). Paul's ignorance (v. 13) echoes this—his "unbelief" blinded him to Jesus' deity.

How could a devout, elite Pharisee like Saul—trained under Gamaliel, fiercely zealous for the honor of YHWH, and utterly committed to stamping out anything he saw as blasphemy against God—ever describe his own past actions as blasphemy (1 Timothy 1:13)?He wasn't casually sinning or attacking some random group. As Saul, he believed he was defending God's name by persecuting Christians—breathing threats and murder against them (Acts 9:1), approving their executions (Acts 26:10), and hunting them to foreign cities. A man of his background and training would never knowingly blaspheme YHWH; that was the very crime he was trying to eradicate!So how can Paul, looking back, honestly call himself a 'blasphemer' unless the one he was actually opposing—Jesus—was God Himself?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9571
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #51

Post by Wootah »

BruceLeiter wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2026 11:33 am [Replying to Wootah in post #1]

@Wootah, the title of this thread confused me, because there is no 13th chapter of 1 Timothy, until I discovered that it is 1 Timothy 1:13. I don't know if you change it, but it would clear up any new people's confusion. Thanks, brother.
I think it's too late to change but thanks for the heads up.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #52

Post by tam »

OneJack wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2026 4:03 am [Replying to tam in post #49]
He is the Truth. Not men, not religion (not even the bible, which can have errors due to the false pen of the scribes.) Christ, Himself, is the Truth and the One to whom God told us to listen.
Christ is, indeed, the Truth because He is the Almighty God to whom all truth only resides. And His name is Jesus, or Immanuel, or Mighty God, or Eternal Father - the truth that the ‘small still voice’ spirit being keeps on drawing you away from since the beginning he has deceived you, Tammy.
Who is the one is deceived, OneJack?

You admit yourself that you are not listening to the Son of God.

viewtopic.php?p=1185169#p1185169


Instead, you claim that the Son of God is dead. But that is the lie.

The Son of God spoke after His death, and resurrection, and ascension:

These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like a blazing fire and whose feet are like polished bronze. 19I know your deeds— your love, your faith, your service, your perseverance— and your latter deeds are greater than your first. Rev 2:18

Christ identifies Himself as the Son of God (These are the words of the Son of God...), and Christ is the Truth. He speaks what is TRUE. He said EXACTLY what He meant, OneJack.

John - and all the people reading these letters that Christ told John to write - have every reason to believe that the Son of God is ALIVE and speaking. Because that is what He SAID. "These are the words of the Son of God..." These are words that the Son of God spoke to John after His resurrection and ascension.


1 - Christ is the Truth.
2 - Christ speaks the truth.
3 - Christ identifies Himself as the Son of God who is speaking after His resurrection and ascension.

If (1) and (2) are correct (and they are correct), then (3) HAS to be TRUE.


Peace.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

BruceLeiter
Scholar
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:39 pm
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #53

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to tam in post #49]

@tam, you have revealed the false belief that the Bible in the form we have it is not God's inspired Word.

God has preserved his Word so that all the history and teachings in it are the result of his inspiration. What "mistakes" do you see in it that affect the history and teachings?

Be careful to note, though, that the 10,000 Hebrew and Greek manuscripts all agree on the Bible's history and teachings. Therefore, God has preserved it. It also shows its authenticity in showing the weaknesses of the ancestors. No other ancient history does that because of human pride. God inspired the prophets and apostles.

Jesus reveals himself to me all the time in giving me his words to write and providing ideas about what to write in my books, but he also uses the Bible to enlighten my life.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #54

Post by tam »

[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #53]

Peace to you Bruce,

Biblical inerrancy is a different topic, and we can discuss that if you want (though I won't be able get to another topic until the weekend).

But for this conversation, you said that I had false interpretations. My question to you is about that. What is it that you think I interpreted? Which verses?

Christ said that He is the Son of God. I believe Him.


Peace again.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

OneJack
Guru
Posts: 2021
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:57 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #55

Post by OneJack »

[Replying to tam in post #52]
Who is the one is deceived, OneJack?
You, of course, are the one deceived! The 'small still voice' spirit continuously deceives you into believing that Christ is not Jesus, the Almighty God.
You admit yourself that you are not listening to the Son of God.
Of course, why would I listen to the Son of God, per se, who is long gone? The Lord Jesus Christ [the Almighty God who dwelt His fullness in the Son of God, per se, during His incarnation] is the One who is always with us, and He is the One to whom we always listen and follow, with all our hearts and souls can dedicate to the fullest.
Instead, you claim that the Son of God is dead. But that is the lie.
The role of the Son of God, per se, is finished, and he's long gone. His body, as the Lord Jesus taught us, was with Mose's body inside the Ark of the Covenant, hidden somewhere in the ME.

The Son of God spoke after His death, and resurrection, and ascension:

These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like a blazing fire and whose feet are like polished bronze. 19I know your deeds— your love, your faith, your service, your perseverance— and your latter deeds are greater than your first. Rev 2:18

Christ identifies Himself as the Son of God (These are the words of the Son of God...), and Christ is the Truth. He speaks what is TRUE. He said EXACTLY what He meant, OneJack.

John - and all the people reading these letters that Christ told John to write - have every reason to believe that the Son of God is ALIVE and speaking. Because that is what He SAID. "These are the words of the Son of God..." These are words that the Son of God spoke to John after His resurrection and ascension.

1 - Christ is the Truth.
2 - Christ speaks the truth.
3 - Christ identifies Himself as the Son of God who is speaking after His resurrection and ascension.

If (1) and (2) are correct (and they are correct), then (3) HAS to be TRUE.


Peace.
You are just interpreting the bible in this context, Tammy dear!

BruceLeiter
Scholar
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:39 pm
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #56

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to tam in post #49]

The sum total of all Jesus' "I am" claims brings about the proper conclusion that Jesus is stating his deity. The crowds knew that that interpretation was correct. With his other claims to be divine, one more than one occasion, they took up stones to kill him for blasphemy, but it's not blasphemy if it's true, which it was.

Joh 8:58  Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 
Jhn_8:59  So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
Joh 10:30  "I and the Father are one.” 
Jhn_10:31  The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #57

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
OneJack wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2026 11:56 pm [Replying to tam in post #52]
Who is the one is deceived, OneJack?
You, of course, are the one deceived! The 'small still voice' spirit continuously deceives you into believing that Christ is not Jesus, the Almighty God.
Christ is Jaheshua - but He is not "Almighty" God (YHWH.)

He is the Holy One OF God. But God - (the God and Father of Christ) - is the MOST Holy One.

You admit yourself that you are not listening to the Son of God.
Of course, why would I listen to the Son of God, per se, who is long gone? The Lord Jesus Christ [the Almighty God who dwelt His fullness in the Son of God, per se, during His incarnation] is the One who is always with us, and He is the One to whom we always listen and follow, with all our hearts and souls can dedicate to the fullest.
Christ is the Son of God.

Peter said it. The disciple Christ loved wrote it. Christ confirmed it.

Also in Revelation - the Son of God (Christ) is speaking. You accept that passage - that Christ is speaking - because you have previously tried to give 'reasons' why He might not have meant what He said (that these are the words of the Son of God.)

But if Christ were not the Son of God, that would mean that He misled John and all who were meant to read those letters. That is what you are suggesting - even if you do not realize it.

Instead, you claim that the Son of God is dead. But that is the lie.
The role of the Son of God, per se, is finished, and he's long gone. His body, as the Lord Jesus taught us, was with Mose's body inside the Ark of the Covenant, hidden somewhere in the ME.
Either you heard wrong or you were taught wrong.

Son of God is not a 'role' - Christ is the true and actual Son of God (the God and Father of Christ.)
The Son of God spoke after His death, and resurrection, and ascension:

These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like a blazing fire and whose feet are like polished bronze. 19I know your deeds— your love, your faith, your service, your perseverance— and your latter deeds are greater than your first. Rev 2:18

Christ identifies Himself as the Son of God (These are the words of the Son of God...), and Christ is the Truth. He speaks what is TRUE. He said EXACTLY what He meant, OneJack.

John - and all the people reading these letters that Christ told John to write - have every reason to believe that the Son of God is ALIVE and speaking. Because that is what He SAID. "These are the words of the Son of God..." These are words that the Son of God spoke to John after His resurrection and ascension.

1 - Christ is the Truth.
2 - Christ speaks the truth.
3 - Christ identifies Himself as the Son of God who is speaking after His resurrection and ascension.

If (1) and (2) are correct (and they are correct), then (3) HAS to be TRUE.


Peace.
You are just interpreting the bible in this context, Tammy dear!

Did the Son of God speak those words? Yes - "These are the words of the Son of God..." Then the Son of God proceeds to speak. "I know your deeds..."
Did this occur after His death and resurrection? Yes.
Is Christ the Truth? Yes.
Does He speak what is true? Yes.

What could you possibly answer no to from those questions?
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #58

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
BruceLeiter wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2026 3:08 pm [Replying to tam in post #49]

The sum total of all Jesus' "I am" claims brings about the proper conclusion that Jesus is stating his deity.
This is an interpretation. Claiming Christ meant something other than what He actually said.

I think I asked what you think I have interpreted. Because I believe Christ when He said "I am God's Son." When also God said "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him."
The crowds knew that that interpretation was correct. With his other claims to be divine, one more than one occasion, they took up stones to kill him for blasphemy, but it's not blasphemy if it's true, which it was.
No, they thought it was blasphemous for Him to claim to be the Son of God - which is all He said.

The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”

Joh 8:58  Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 
Jhn_8:59  So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
This is about Him being BEFORE Abraham.

The verse directly preceding it is the people questioning how He could have seen Abraham when He was not yet fifty years old:

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” [Jesus] answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Joh 10:30  "I and the Father are one.” 
Jhn_10:31  The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.
Again, this is about Him being God's Son. This is not about Him claiming to be God Himself.

Also from John 10: Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?


Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

BruceLeiter
Scholar
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2025 3:39 pm
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #59

Post by BruceLeiter »

[Replying to tam in post #58]

Inspired John explains why the people are trying to kill Jesus, @tam, in John 5:18. They do it because he is claiming to be God's Son, thus making him equal with God. The Son has the deity equally with his Father, because he is of the same nature, just the way we also have human nature as our parents do:

Jhn_5:18  This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 356 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus is God - 1 Tim 13 - who is Paul blaspheming against?

Post #60

Post by tam »

Peace to you Bruce,
BruceLeiter wrote: Fri May 01, 2026 10:43 am [Replying to tam in post #58]

Inspired John explains why the people are trying to kill Jesus, @tam, in John 5:18. They do it because he is claiming to be God's Son, thus making him equal with God.


Yes, because He claimed to be God's Son. He did not claim to be God, Himself.

Christ never claimed to be equal to His Father, but even if He had - claiming to be equal to someone is not the same as claiming to BE someone.
The Son has the deity equally with his Father, because he is of the same nature, just the way we also have human nature as our parents do:

Jhn_5:18  This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
Are you using the word 'god' as a species/kind, then? Same as humans are a species/kind?

Peace again to you.
- Non-religious Christian spirituality

- For Christ (who is the Spirit)

Post Reply