Is this a blatant example of circular logic?

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Justin108
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Is this a blatant example of circular logic?

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Post by Justin108 »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 17 by Justin108]

Truth doesn't contradict truth; scientific truth is simply the correct understanding of the physical world. The bible is a book of truth and so by definition it won't contradict what is true. If therefore the bible touches on science (which it does rarely, but it does on occassion) but one interpretation contradicts what we know to be true about the physical world and the other doesn't, its not rocket science to know which interpretation is correct.

Logic,

JW
- Everything in the Bible is true
- If you find something in the Bible that is not true, it must mean that you interpreted it wrong
- How do we know you interpreted it wrong and that the Bible is not simply mistaken? Because everything in the Bible is true

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Re: Is this a blatant example of circular logic?

Post #71

Post by H.sapiens »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Justin108 wrote: Can you perhaps describe how exactly God communicated with you?
Through holy spirit and personal experience.
Justin108 wrote:Was it an audible interaction as if another human being was speaking to you?
Not as yet, no.
Justin108 wrote: Please, in as much detail as you can, describe to me what it is like to have God personally inform you of something.
Yes I can. I won't, at least not to you, but I certainly could if I chose to.

JW


RELATED POSTS

What is holy spirit?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 804#868804

Further Reading: Do you communicate with God?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... -with-god/
That is the "Son of Sam" approach to deity communication. What leads you to believe that your communication with your god is any more real than David Berkowitz' was?

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Post #72

Post by William »

[Replying to post 66 by Justin108]

I know your questions were to JW but I am always keen to answer such questions, so hope that you don't mind that I do. :)
Can you perhaps describe how exactly God communicated with you?
As a Panpsychist who understands GOD as a conscious self aware intelligent creative entity which permeates the whole universe and divests itself into form for the purpose of experience, I understand that all consciousnesses are aspects of the overall Consciousness and are part of GOD (rather than separate from GOD).

In relation to communication between me and GOD,this involves the local aspect of the overall consciousness which resides within our planet and is the reason why life forms evolve and exist on our planet.

I see planet entity as the local GOD and one to which a constructive relationship can be achieved with.
Was it an audible interaction as if another human being was speaking to you?
I have not myself experienced anything of that nature. The communication comes through various interactive media all to do with my personal subjective experience and interpretation of said experience as a human being. My 'inner voice' is useful as part of that process.
Was it a physical sensation of sorts?
Physical sensations do play a part, but these are mostly to do with emotional instigation. For the most part it is intuition which acts as a bridge of sorts between my conscious awareness and the subconscious mind - which I have come to understand as being a 'shared mind' - as in - it is what we all have common but which is not the possession of the individual in the way that individual self awareness appears to be.

In that, it acts as the bridge into the mind of the local GOD, and that mind is vast.
Please, in as much detail as you can, describe to me what it is like to have God personally inform you of something.
It is liberating and productive, and allows me to look at the world through new understanding and the tendency to be judgmental about the world and my situation within it, is dramatically reduced.
It gives me reason for being and the ability to accept my position without complaint, because this is only a phase I am going through for the experience and relative to the age of the universe, is but a moment and also I understand that all consciousness is eternal, always has existed and always will exist, so when the death of my present form finally happens, I move on to the next experience - and the more enlightened I can be through this experience, the better equipped I am to shape my next one - to have more say in what it is that I require, based upon the knowledge I have gleaned through this present experience.

This is because I understand my self as an aspect of the local GOD (Earth Entity) and I recognize the EE as an aspect of an even vaster entity - it is all the same really - just at differing levels of experience, and as such it sees all of its aspects as part of itself rather than separate from itself.
This is also why I have also come to see everyone as aspects of myself - and equal for that. The separation between us all is an illusion which most of us tend to feed into through our beliefs and perceptions.

The main reason for the troubles that organised religions have introduced to the world throughout history can be traced to having ideas of GOD which are separate from human beings. They separate GOD from humans and humans from each other.

Also, they have 'holy books' which basically play the role of their idea of GOD and define for them the boarders of their beliefs within the dogma they best relate to according to the various interpretations they get from those holy books. The books become the mouthpiece of GOD and in that, the local GOD which actually exists, is practically silenced and is not heard through the medium of individual human consciousness - the books, the interpreters, and the priests/pastors/elders etc become the mouthpiece or lens through which GOD is determined.

The people generally lap it up because they are too afraid to stand alone and take responsibility for their own interpretation of their life's experience and relationship with the local GOD.

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Re: Is this a blatant example of circular logic?

Post #73

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 69 by JehovahsWitness]
I have yet to be informed by my maker to ignore anything in it, so I don't. I feel confident if he wanted me to ignore anything in the bible, he'd find a way to let me know.
JW, please answer this. I look at the book, see the title (some variation of 'Holy Bible'). In it, there is much talk about a character called God, YHWH, The Lord etc etc. This character supposedly gives rules/instructions/commandments to people.
Are you saying that since this character has not told you (via some as yet unexplained method) to dismiss/ignore some part of the Bible, therefore you take that part to be true?
Do you not see the failure of logic at play here (if it is a known logical fallacy, I don't know the name of it)? What you are espousing ignores the possibility of the reason the character doesn't tell you to dismiss something is that he doesn't exist.

As I said in a previous post - I could read the Dark Tower books by Stephen King (with no knowledge as to whether they are fiction or non-fiction). At no point does the Crimson King tell me to ignore some part of the books. Should I then conclude the Crimson King exists and that any understanding I come to about the books must be true, the correct interpretation?
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I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #74

Post by rikuoamero »

Further Reading: Do you communicate with God?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... -with-god/
As an aside - I wouldn't be surprised if Justin108 feels annoyed, like I do here. Justin108 asks YOU, JW, as in you the person, do you communicate with God (and how), and your response, among others, is to link to an online magazine article. It's taking a question about a specific individual and giving a response about a collective.
They're two different things.
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

Justin108
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Re: Is this a blatant example of circular logic?

Post #75

Post by Justin108 »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Justin108 wrote:I take it that since you ignore nothing in the Bible that God himself has never personally informed you?
I can't say I know everything in the bible by heart and I am far from perfect, but I will say I never willfully ignore the bible, doing my best to apply its laws and principles. I have yet to be informed by my maker to ignore anything in it, so I don't
I've never been informed by my maker to ignore the Quran. So I guess the Quran is legit, prime knowledge. Thanks for the heads-up, JW. Praise Allah and all that. You have shown me the way with your impeccable logic.
JehovahsWitness wrote: I feel confident if he wanted me to ignore anything in the bible, he'd find a way to let me know.
Why does God need to come up with creative ways of informing you? He couldn't just... tell you?

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Post #76

Post by Justin108 »

William wrote:
Can you perhaps describe how exactly God communicated with you?
As a Panpsychist who understands GOD as a conscious self aware intelligent creative entity which permeates the whole universe and divests itself into form for the purpose of experience, I understand that all consciousnesses are aspects of the overall Consciousness and are part of GOD (rather than separate from GOD).
How did you come to this understanding?
William wrote: In relation to communication between me and GOD,this involves the local aspect of the overall consciousness which resides within our planet and is the reason why life forms evolve and exist on our planet.
How did you come to this conclusion?
William wrote: The communication comes through various interactive media all to do with my personal subjective experience and interpretation of said experience as a human being. My 'inner voice' is useful as part of that process.
What makes you think your inner voice is anything other than your own thoughts?
William wrote:
Please, in as much detail as you can, describe to me what it is like to have God personally inform you of something.
It is liberating and productive, and allows me to look at the world through new understanding and the tendency to be judgmental about the world and my situation within it, is dramatically reduced.
It gives me reason for being and the ability to accept my position without complaint, because this is only a phase I am going through for the experience and relative to the age of the universe, is but a moment and also I understand that all consciousness is eternal, always has existed and always will exist, so when the death of my present form finally happens, I move on to the next experience - and the more enlightened I can be through this experience, the better equipped I am to shape my next one - to have more say in what it is that I require, based upon the knowledge I have gleaned through this present experience.

This is because I understand my self as an aspect of the local GOD (Earth Entity) and I recognize the EE as an aspect of an even vaster entity - it is all the same really - just at differing levels of experience, and as such it sees all of its aspects as part of itself rather than separate from itself.
This is also why I have also come to see everyone as aspects of myself - and equal for that. The separation between us all is an illusion which most of us tend to feed into through our beliefs and perceptions.
You use the word "understand" quite often. How do you distinguish "understand" from "assume" or "believe"? You say you "understand" that all consciousness is eternal. How do you know that this is not just an assumption you made?

From what I can tell through your explanations, you seem to have experienced "something" and you attribute this "something" to God. Is there a rational reason for doing this?

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Post #77

Post by alexxcJRO »

William wrote:
As a Panpsychist who understands GOD as a conscious self aware intelligent creative entity which permeates the whole universe and divests itself into form for the purpose of experience, I understand that all consciousnesses are aspects of the overall Consciousness and are part of GOD (rather than separate from GOD).

In relation to communication between me and GOD,this involves the local aspect of the overall consciousness which resides within our planet and is the reason why life forms evolve and exist on our planet.

I see planet entity as the local GOD and one to which a constructive relationship can be achieved with.



As a Shobolibostrutocamila who can achieve a high level of consciousness through extensive meditation and fasting I tell you: You are wrong sir. The flying pink unicorn the one who created the universe by farting 14 billion years ago reveal to me that you are just making things up. He told me he is a highly evolved energy being 1 million billion years old who resides in a higher dimension outside our universe but can interact with our own and other universes by changing his resonance frequency.
8-)
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Post #78

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 76 by alexxcJRO]

If scientists discover the cause of the big bang is not a pink unicorns fart, then I shall be very disappointed.
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #79

Post by William »

alexxcJRO wrote:
William wrote:
As a Panpsychist who understands GOD as a conscious self aware intelligent creative entity which permeates the whole universe and divests itself into form for the purpose of experience, I understand that all consciousnesses are aspects of the overall Consciousness and are part of GOD (rather than separate from GOD).

In relation to communication between me and GOD,this involves the local aspect of the overall consciousness which resides within our planet and is the reason why life forms evolve and exist on our planet.

I see planet entity as the local GOD and one to which a constructive relationship can be achieved with.



As a Shobolibostrutocamila...
8-)
Google is my friend.

"Your search - Shobolibostrutocamila - did not match any documents."

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Post #80

Post by H.sapiens »

William wrote:
alexxcJRO wrote:
William wrote:
As a Panpsychist who understands GOD as a conscious self aware intelligent creative entity which permeates the whole universe and divests itself into form for the purpose of experience, I understand that all consciousnesses are aspects of the overall Consciousness and are part of GOD (rather than separate from GOD).

In relation to communication between me and GOD,this involves the local aspect of the overall consciousness which resides within our planet and is the reason why life forms evolve and exist on our planet.

I see planet entity as the local GOD and one to which a constructive relationship can be achieved with.



As a Shobolibostrutocamila...
8-)
Google is my friend.

"Your search - Shobolibostrutocamila - did not match any documents."
That's a Gap of the Gods.

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