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So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?Luke 16:
6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.
onewithhim then postedI do reject much of what you say about the kingdom.
That is because, to me, it is full of assumptions, misunderstandings, and claims that do not match what the New Testament conveys about the kingdom, whether present or future.
"Read my lips"[posts] on this thread for what has been written, and "watch this space" for what is yet to be written.Please be more specific. What assumptions and misunderstandings have I shown evidence of? How do my claims about the Kingdom not match what is said in the New Testament?
My understanding is you do accept that God's kingdom is indeed a type of Government* , but that it started ruling in the Roman era while we say it began ruling much later. Is that about right?Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 216 by onewithhim]
What is so hard to accept about what JW and I are trying to explain about the Kingdom?
Checkpoint replied
I do reject much of what you say about the kingdom.
From what I can see we both agree God's kingdom started ruling at some point of time in the past and will extend it's rule into the future when it's full potential will result in the earth being free of suffering and pain.Checkpoint wrote:Yes.JehovahsWitness wrote: Are you saying that the kingdom was "set up" during the reign of the Roman cesars?
[/quote] Checkpoint wrote: It does not "come" one time, but multiple times in answer to that prayer in multiple expression of God's will being done. [...] I said above, "The ruling began as soon as there was something to rule".
From what I can see, where you go wrong is a is being unable to see theses two seperate things thus your attempt to combine all statements to do with divine rulership into the Messieanic kingdom which obliges you to say that it began when God first had "something to rule" (ie long before the earth existed) and began in the Roman era... that it "came" during the time of cesars, "came again" just before Jesus told his followers to PRAY for it to come, has already "come" (while we continue to pray that it comes) and will come in the future to resolve earth problems.#1 God's universal sovereignty: God's position and power as KING and Supreme ruler of all creation; something that has always been and always will be and...
#2 The Messianic kingdom : The government that will be on the shoulders of the "Prince of Peace" (see the word "government" in Isaiah 6:9), the subject of numerous "messianic" prophecies, which has not always existed but began at a specific moment in time (which we both agree on - see above) and for which Jesus told his disciples to pray.
Yes God has "always been on His throne" this is reference to his unversal sovereinty, and position as supreme ruler of the unverses. When we pray for "Thy Kindom Come" we are asking for the full reealization of the MESSIANIC Kingdom promises. It's such a shame if people, especially those that love the bible, let pride and an unwillingness to back down stop them from accepting such a simple adjustment that will allow all the other scriptures to fall logically into place - without having to resort to the mental gymnastics of praying for somethin that has existed since the beginning of timeCheckpoint wrote:Yes, it has already come, it keeps on coming, and it will come in the future.
God always has been, and always will be, on His throne.
Yes, but "the devil is in the details".JehovahsWitness wrote:Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 216 by onewithhim]
What is so hard to accept about what JW and I are trying to explain about the Kingdom?
Checkpoint replied
I do reject much of what you say about the kingdom.Very broadly, yes.My understanding is you do accept that God's kingdom is indeed a type of Government* , but that it started ruling in the Roman era while we say it began ruling much later. Is that about right?
However, our differences are so major that they cannot be treated lightly.
* according to a typical dictionary definition of what a kingdom is (see below)
Checkpoint wrote:Yes.JehovahsWitness wrote: Are you saying that the kingdom was "set up" during the reign of the Roman cesars?From what I can see we both agree God's kingdom started ruling at some point of time in the past and will extend it's rule into the future when it's full potential will result in the earth being free of suffering and pain.
Such a good post, JW, by far the best I have seen from you on this thread.JehovahsWitness wrote:Checkpoint wrote: It does not "come" one time, but multiple times in answer to that prayer in multiple expression of God's will being done. [...] I said above, "The ruling began as soon as there was something to rule".
I think you misunderstand that the bible deals with two seperate (but related things)From what I can see, where you go wrong is a is being unable to see theses two seperate things thus your attempt to combine all statements to do with divine rulership into the Messieanic kingdom which obliges you to say that it began when God first had "something to rule" (ie long before the earth existed) and began in the Roman era... that it "came" during the time of cesars, "came again" just before Jesus told his followers to PRAY for it to come, has already "come" (while we continue to pray that it comes) and will come in the future to resolve earth problems.#1 God's universal sovereignty: God's position and power as KING and Supreme ruler of all creation; something that has always been and always will be and...
#2 The Messianic kingdom : The government that will be on the shoulders of the "Prince of Peace" (see the word "government" in Isaiah 6:9), the subject of numerous "messianic" prophecies, which has not always existed but began at a specific moment in time (which we both agree on - see above) and for which Jesus told his disciples to pray.
Yes God has "always been on His throne" this is reference to his unversal sovereinty, and position as supreme ruler of the unverses. When we pray for "Thy Kindom Come" we are asking for the full reealization of the MESSIANIC Kingdom promises. It's such a shame if people, especially those that love the bible, let pride and an unwillingness to back down stop them from accepting such a simple adjustment that will allow all the other scriptures to fall logically into place - without having to resort to the mental gymnastics of praying for somethin that has existed since the beginning of timeCheckpoint wrote:Yes, it has already come, it keeps on coming, and it will come in the future.
God always has been, and always will be, on His throne.
JW
Your post is interesting and has its place on this debating site, but it is not here on this thread.Do you not see what kind of a sociopathic sadist you make your God out to be? How many generations have to pass from the prophetic date before you realize that you are waiting for nought?
The option of "nought" is not included or intended on this thread.So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?
On what basis?
According to which scriptures?
If I have in any way given the impression that God will not usher in a wonderful paradise, let me rectify that right now: Jehovah's Witnesses absolutely believe God will indeed rid this our planet earth of all wickedness, kill of the incorrigibly wicked and usher in a peacefu era under his kingdom government were people will live in paradise like conditions for all time.McCulloch wrote: According to you, He could usher in a wonderful paradise, but he won't.
To learn more please go to other posts related to...
THE KINGDOM, THE MILLENIUM and ...THE EARTHLY PARADISE
