God kills 70000 Israelites!!!

[alexxcJRO]

According to the perfect inerrant word of God(Bible) the omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent Yahweh kills 70,000 Israelites including countless of innocent(of any wrong-doing, sin) small children, infants for the sin of one man(David) after he or Satan incites him to sin:

2 Samuel 24

David Enrolls the Fighting Men
24 Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.
2 So the king said to Joab and the army commanders[a] with him, Go throughout the tribes of Israel from Dan to Beersheba and enroll the fighting men, so that I may know how many there are.
3 But Joab replied to the king, May the LORD your God multiply the troops a hundred times over, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it. But why does my lord the king want to do such a thing?
4 The kings word, however, overruled Joab and the army commanders; so they left the presence of the king to enroll the fighting men of Israel.
5 After crossing the Jordan, they camped near Aroer, south of the town in the gorge, and then went through Gad and on to Jazer. 6 They went to Gilead and the region of Tahtim Hodshi, and on to Dan Jaan and around toward Sidon. 7 Then they went toward the fortress of Tyre and all the towns of the Hivites and Canaanites. Finally, they went on to Beershebain the Negev of Judah.
8 After they had gone through the entire land, they came back to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days.
9 Joab reported the number of the fighting men to the king: In Israel there were eight hundred thousand able-bodied men who could handle a sword, and in Judah five hundred thousand.
10 David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing.
11 Before David got up the next morning, the word of the LORD had come to Gad the prophet, Davids seer: 12 Go and tell David, This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.
13 So Gad went to David and said to him, Shall there come on you three years of famine in your land? Or three months of fleeing from your enemies while they pursue you? Or three days of plague in your land? Now then, think it over and decide how I should answer the one who sent me.
14 David said to Gad, I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into human hands.
15 So the LORD sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died. 16 When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the LORD relented concerning the disaster and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, Enough! Withdraw your hand. The angel of the LORD was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
17 When David saw the angel who was striking down the people, he said to the LORD, I have sinned; I, the shepherd,[c] have done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done? Let your hand fall on me and my family.

Observation: The account in 1 Chronicles is different then the account in 2 Samuel. (So much for the perfect, inerrant word of God)

Someone would wonder what abominable sin David committed that angered God so much to make him act in such horrendous way: killing tens of thousands of men, woman and children.

Hold on your straps people, here it comes: He did a census!!!

Imagine that. The poor guy did a census and Yahweh in his perfect wisdom, justice, benevolence decided that the punishment suited for this was not to punish in some way the person guilty of the wrong-doing, sin but instead kill 70 000 people innocent of this wrong-doing, sin; kill thousands of small children, infants who are innocent of any wrong-doing, sin.

David even asks a very wise question to God. Why punish others when he was the one guilty:

I have sinned; I, the shepherd,[c] have done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done?

Off course the perfect God of the Bible does not answer the question. How would he?!!!

Q: How can anyone be so oblivious to such a huge discrepancy, contradiction between the supposed attributes of God (omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence, perfect wisdom, justice, mercy) and the actions of this being portrait in the Bible?

Q: How can anyone praise, worship a being that inflicts so easily, so much suffering and death to thousands of innocent children? How can one call this being benevolent or wise or loving?

Q: How can anyone in their right mind, with their rational faculties intact defend such actions and not smell the foul stench of nonsense rotting their brain?

[JehovahsWitness]

Yahweh kills 70,000 Israelites ... How can one call this being benevolent or wise or loving?

Who was responsible?

In the specific case mentioned it should be noted that it was King David that specifically breeched the national contract. The Israelites as a nation had asked for a King, they were told at the time that this would mean that they could suffer the the consequences of any bad decisions that king made. Their response was to formally accept to pay that price, rejecting direct rule by God in favor of an imperfect human representative. This is a sad example of the Israelites paying the agreed price.

David made the tragic decision to violate a god given national law, the whole nation was held to account (as per the terms of agreement); If one agrees to pay 70, 000 dollars for a house, you shouldn't complain when you have 70,000 dollars less in your bank. It was made clear at the time of agreement that the people LIVES would directly be affected by agreeing to have a king, indeed God made it clear that if the king lacked integrity they would all pay dearly; this proved to be the case. Who is to blame for this, God (who tried to protect them from this kind of situation) or the people (who had insisted on having a king)? Or (to mix my metaphors) ...

If a Lawyer warns a woman that by her signing a prenuptual agreement, she is potentially creating a situation where she (and any children she may have) will suffer if the man proves to be ruthless and unkind. Who then is to blame if this proves to be the case and she and her children end up on the street after 30 years of marriage? Are we to lame the lawyer who tried to talk her out of it or the woman herself?

The children are certainly not to be blamed for the decision of adults (although they will indeed suffer due to the bad decisions of those in authority), but neither is the Lawyer. In the same way God is not to be blamed for the bad decisions of those involved in this case.

JEHOVAH A MERCIFUL GOD

In this account we note that rather than seven years of famine or three months under enemy control, David opted for the final punishment, namely a three day plague under God's control. As well as noting that judges don't usually give convicted guilty subjects a choice, which in itself was an example of kindness, note interestingly however what eventually happened:

When the angel stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem to destroy it, Jehovah felt regret over the calamity, and he said to the angel bringing destruction among the people: It is enough! Now let your hand drop. - 2 Sam 24:16 NWT

This seems to imply that God cut the period short and did not allow the full punishment to run its course. If this was the case, many more people were set to die but God mercifully prevented it. We don't know specifically who (or if any children) died, the bible doesn't say, however is there no reason not to believe that the biblical hope of a resurrection will be extended to certain ones.

Why could God not have overlooked David's error? or inflicted the punishment on him (David) or his household personally as requested?

Because without respect and regard for Jehovah's laws the nation would suffer much greater harm and ultimate many more thousands or millions would die. To illustrate: If a judge systematically pardoned drunk drivers, how many children will ultimately be killed by that driver and others once it is understood that a protective law will never be enforced? As a tiny nation surrounded by much stronger military forces, the survival of countless men women and innocent children depended on their keeping their god given laws and as a conseuence enjoying the approval and protection of their God Jehovah (YHWH/Yaweh). Thus subsequent kings and the nation as a whole had to understand their lives depended on their obedience to the Mosaic law, punishing David privately for what was essentially a national matter (David conducted an illegal national census) would undermine peoples regard for the law which could potentially lead to their complete annihilation. It was a public matter and had to be delt with publically*.

CONCLUSION: The case of the illegal census highlights Jehovah's wisdom, foresight, patience and mercy (see Deut 32: 4). It also illustrates the folly of humans attempting to violate godly law and principles.

JW

* King David had previously committed a sexual sin that he was held personally accontable for but even that had national repurcussions, illustrating that what a king does, even in private will effect his subjects.


RELATED POSTS

Jehovah's beautiful personality
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 944#869944

Does the bible advocate the punishing of someone unjustly for the offenses of others?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 932#837932

Divine executions: Sabbath Breakers
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 700#837700

[Monta]

[Replying to post 1 by alexxcJRO]

God kills 70000 Israelites!!!

Catchy title but 70000 can not be found.

[ttruscott]

According to the perfect inerrant word of God(Bible) the omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent Yahweh kills 70,000 Israelites including countless of innocent(of any wrong-doing, sin) small children, infants for the sin of one man(David) after he or Satan incites him to sin:

Basing any conclusion upon the false premise that human infants are innocent before GOD and not just innocent to, of, in the world can never arrive at the truth.

[alexxcJRO]

Yahweh kills 70,000 Israelites ... How can one call this being benevolent or wise or loving?

Who was responsible?

In the specific case mentioned it should be noted that it was King David that specifically breeched the national contract. The Israelites as a nation had asked for a King, they were told at the time that this would mean that they could suffer the the consequences of any bad decisions that king made. Their response was to formally accept to pay that price, rejecting direct rule by God in favor of an imperfect human representative. This is a sad example of the Israelites paying the agreed price.

David made the tragic decision to violate a god given national law, the whole nation was held to account (as per the terms of agreement); If one agrees to pay 70, 000 dollars for a house, you shouldn't complain when you have 70,000 dollars less in your bank. It was made clear at the time of agreement that the people LIVES would directly be affected by agreeing to have a king, indeed God made it clear that if the king lacked integrity they would all pay dearly; this proved to be the case. Who is to blame for this, God (who tried to protect them from this kind of situation) or the people (who had insisted on having a king)? Or (to mix my metaphors) ...

If a Lawyer warns a woman that by her signing a prenuptual agreement, she is potentially creating a situation where she (and any children she may have) will suffer if the man proves to be ruthless and unkind. Who then is to blame if this proves to be the case and she and her children end up on the street after 30 years of marriage? Are we to lame the lawyer who tried to talk her out of it or the woman herself?

The children are certainly not to be blamed for the decision of adults (although they will indeed suffer due to the bad decisions of those in authority), but neither is the Lawyer. In the same way God is not to be blamed for the bad decisions of those involved in this case.

JEHOVAH A MERCIFUL GOD

In this account we note that rather than seven years of famine or three months under enemy control, David opted for the final punishment, namely a three day plague under God's control. As well as noting that judges don't usually give convicted guilty subjects a choice, which in itself was an example of kindness, note interestingly however what eventually happened:

When the angel stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem to destroy it, Jehovah felt regret over the calamity, and he said to the angel bringing destruction among the people: It is enough! Now let your hand drop. - 2 Sam 24:16 NWT

This seems to imply that God cut the period short and did not allow the full punishment to run its course. If this was the case, many more people were set to die but God mercifully prevented it. We don't know specifically who (or if any children) died, the bible doesn't say, however is there no reason not to believe that the biblical hope of a resurrection will be extended to certain ones.

Why could God not have overlooked David's error? or inflicted the punishment on him (David) or his household personally as requested?

Because without respect and regard for Jehovah's laws the nation would suffer much greater harm and ultimate many more thousands or millions would die. To illustrate: If a judge systematically pardoned drunk drivers, how many children will ultimately be killed by that driver and others once it is understood that a protective law will never be enforced? As a tiny nation surrounded by much stronger military forces, the survival of countless men women and innocent children depended on their keeping their god given laws and as a conseuence enjoying the approval and protection of their God Jehovah (YHWH/Yaweh). Thus subsequent kings and the nation as a whole had to understand their lives depended on their obedience to the Mosaic law, punishing David privately for what was essentially a national matter (David conducted an illegal national census) would undermine peoples regard for the law which could potentially lead to their complete annihilation. It was a public matter and had to be delt with publically*.

CONCLUSION: The case of the illegal census highlights Jehovah's wisdom, foresight, patience and mercy (see Deut 32: 4). It also illustrates the folly of humans attempting to violate godly law and principles.

JW

* King David had previously committed a sexual sin that he was held personally accontable for but even that had national repurcussions, illustrating that what a king does, even in private will effect his subjects.


RELATED POSTS

Jehovah's beautiful personality
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 944#869944

Does the bible advocate the punishing of someone unjustly for the offenses of others?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 932#837932

Divine executions: Sabbath Breakers
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 700#837700

Nonsensical, boring and irrelevant ramblings cuz of cognitive dissonance born out of desperation to save what cannot be saved.

At least one small children or infant or mentally impaired man/woman/child died as a consequence of God's actions.

Small children, infants, the mentally impaired and animals do not have the rational faculties necesary to understand concepts like right, wrong, good, evil, law.

Therefore logic dictates thay cannot be held responsable for any wrong doing and therefore punished under any circumstancies whatsoever.

God is suposedly omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, perfectly good, infinitely wise, just, merciful.

Therefore we would see zero small children or infants or mentally impaired people punished by God.

Seeing that at least one small children or infant or mentally impaired man/woman/child died as a consequence of God's actions proves without a shade of doubt that God is not omnipotent; omniscient; omnibenevolent; perfectly good; infinitely wise, just, merciful.

Saying otherwise would be illogical and would just insult the inteligence of everyone that read this thread.

Observation: Please don't bore me again with analogies concerning human law and human law systems which are inevitably limited for humans are limited. We are talking here about an omnipotent being: there is nothing he cannot do. Surely an omnipotent, omnicient, omnibenevolent being can devise an infintely more perfect law-system then this joke here(a system where inocents, non-moral agents suffer, die as a result of punishment).

How sad it is to see a human being that has his mirror neurons functioning at normal parameters defend actions like genocides, mass murders, slavery and rape perpetrated against both adults(moral agents) and small children, infants, mentally impaired people, animals(non-moral agents).

Q: How afraid can one be of death that would go to such manners to defend the undefendable?!!!

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 1 by alexxcJRO]

God kills 70000 Israelites!!!

Catchy title but 70000 can not be found.

Nonsensical, boring and irrelevant ramblings cuz of cognitive dissonance born out of desperation to save what cannot be saved.

Apparently the bias is making you unable to read.

Here again:

"So the LORD sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died."

[alexxcJRO]

According to the perfect inerrant word of God(Bible) the omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent Yahweh kills 70,000 Israelites including countless of innocent(of any wrong-doing, sin) small children, infants for the sin of one man(David) after he or Satan incites him to sin:

Basing any conclusion upon the false premise that human infants are innocent before GOD and not just innocent to, of, in the world can never arrive at the truth.

At least one small child or infant or mentally impaired among the 70000 chose to be able to become holy in YHWH's sight in his previous life.

Therefore God killed at least one non-moral agent who is a sheep(chose to be able to become holy in YHWH's sight in his previous life).

There you go dear sir. Your done.

[JP Cusick]

According to the perfect inerrant word of God(Bible) the omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent Yahweh kills 70,000 Israelites including countless of innocent(of any wrong-doing, sin) small children, infants for the sin of one man(David) after he or Satan incites him to sin:

2 Samuel 24

David Enrolls the Fighting Men
24 Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.
2 So the king said to Joab and the army commanders[a] with him, Go throughout the tribes of Israel from Dan to Beersheba and enroll the fighting men, so that I may know how many there are.
3 But Joab replied to the king, May the LORD your God multiply the troops a hundred times over, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it. But why does my lord the king want to do such a thing?
4 The kings word, however, overruled Joab and the army commanders; so they left the presence of the king to enroll the fighting men of Israel.
5 After crossing the Jordan, they camped near Aroer, south of the town in the gorge, and then went through Gad and on to Jazer. 6 They went to Gilead and the region of Tahtim Hodshi, and on to Dan Jaan and around toward Sidon. 7 Then they went toward the fortress of Tyre and all the towns of the Hivites and Canaanites. Finally, they went on to Beershebain the Negev of Judah.
8 After they had gone through the entire land, they came back to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days.
9 Joab reported the number of the fighting men to the king: In Israel there were eight hundred thousand able-bodied men who could handle a sword, and in Judah five hundred thousand.
10 David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing.
11 Before David got up the next morning, the word of the LORD had come to Gad the prophet, Davids seer: 12 Go and tell David, This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.
13 So Gad went to David and said to him, Shall there come on you three years of famine in your land? Or three months of fleeing from your enemies while they pursue you? Or three days of plague in your land? Now then, think it over and decide how I should answer the one who sent me.
14 David said to Gad, I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into human hands.
15 So the LORD sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died. 16 When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the LORD relented concerning the disaster and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, Enough! Withdraw your hand. The angel of the LORD was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
17 When David saw the angel who was striking down the people, he said to the LORD, I have sinned; I, the shepherd,[c] have done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done? Let your hand fall on me and my family.

Observation: The account in 1 Chronicles is different then the account in 2 Samuel. (So much for the perfect, inerrant word of God)

Someone would wonder what abominable sin David committed that angered God so much to make him act in such horrendous way: killing tens of thousands of men, woman and children.

Hold on your straps people, here it comes: He did a census!!!

Imagine that. The poor guy did a census and Yahweh in his perfect wisdom, justice, benevolence decided that the punishment suited for this was not to punish in some way the person guilty of the wrong-doing, sin but instead kill 70 000 people innocent of this wrong-doing, sin; kill thousands of small children, infants who are innocent of any wrong-doing, sin.

David even asks a very wise question to God. Why punish others when he was the one guilty:

I have sinned; I, the shepherd,[c] have done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done?

Off course the perfect God of the Bible does not answer the question. How would he?!!!

Q: How can anyone be so oblivious to such a huge discrepancy, contradiction between the supposed attributes of God (omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence, perfect wisdom, justice, mercy) and the actions of this being portrait in the Bible?

Q: How can anyone praise, worship a being that inflicts so easily, so much suffering and death to thousands of innocent children? How can one call this being benevolent or wise or loving?

Q: How can anyone in their right mind, with their rational faculties intact defend such actions and not smell the foul stench of nonsense rotting their brain?

I see the problem as taking the Bible far too literally.

Only real fanatics would interpret this text as it is literally translated into English, and then condemn God based on this.

One thing there is that God is not speaking Himself, as it is some prophet named Gad and even Gad is not the one writing the book of "2 Samuel", which means it is not second hand but at least a third hand account which means some parts of the story might be incomplete or inaccurate.

An honest Scholar would likely interpret this as "literally" being there was a plague at that time and the people blamed King David for the plague and thereafter the blame fell of God as the one who sent the plague, and the so called "plague" might have just been the measles or some other common virus which killed many people.

It also seems likely that the number of 70,000 is exaggerated unless they went around counting the dead, and the dispute with God in the first place was that they were NOT to count the fighting men, so counting the dead would seem risky indeed.

In verse 24 it says that the real sin was committed by the people of Israel, so it was not really against David, and so the punishment went accordingly to the same people.

The real Father God always tells the people to repent and to do right - but the people just keep rebelling back then as they still do today.

[alexxcJRO]

According to the perfect inerrant word of God(Bible) the omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent Yahweh kills 70,000 Israelites including countless of innocent(of any wrong-doing, sin) small children, infants for the sin of one man(David) after he or Satan incites him to sin:

2 Samuel 24

David Enrolls the Fighting Men
24 Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.
2 So the king said to Joab and the army commanders[a] with him, Go throughout the tribes of Israel from Dan to Beersheba and enroll the fighting men, so that I may know how many there are.
3 But Joab replied to the king, May the LORD your God multiply the troops a hundred times over, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it. But why does my lord the king want to do such a thing?
4 The kings word, however, overruled Joab and the army commanders; so they left the presence of the king to enroll the fighting men of Israel.
5 After crossing the Jordan, they camped near Aroer, south of the town in the gorge, and then went through Gad and on to Jazer. 6 They went to Gilead and the region of Tahtim Hodshi, and on to Dan Jaan and around toward Sidon. 7 Then they went toward the fortress of Tyre and all the towns of the Hivites and Canaanites. Finally, they went on to Beershebain the Negev of Judah.
8 After they had gone through the entire land, they came back to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days.
9 Joab reported the number of the fighting men to the king: In Israel there were eight hundred thousand able-bodied men who could handle a sword, and in Judah five hundred thousand.
10 David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing.
11 Before David got up the next morning, the word of the LORD had come to Gad the prophet, Davids seer: 12 Go and tell David, This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.
13 So Gad went to David and said to him, Shall there come on you three years of famine in your land? Or three months of fleeing from your enemies while they pursue you? Or three days of plague in your land? Now then, think it over and decide how I should answer the one who sent me.
14 David said to Gad, I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into human hands.
15 So the LORD sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died. 16 When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the LORD relented concerning the disaster and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, Enough! Withdraw your hand. The angel of the LORD was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
17 When David saw the angel who was striking down the people, he said to the LORD, I have sinned; I, the shepherd,[c] have done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done? Let your hand fall on me and my family.

Observation: The account in 1 Chronicles is different then the account in 2 Samuel. (So much for the perfect, inerrant word of God)

Someone would wonder what abominable sin David committed that angered God so much to make him act in such horrendous way: killing tens of thousands of men, woman and children.

Hold on your straps people, here it comes: He did a census!!!

Imagine that. The poor guy did a census and Yahweh in his perfect wisdom, justice, benevolence decided that the punishment suited for this was not to punish in some way the person guilty of the wrong-doing, sin but instead kill 70 000 people innocent of this wrong-doing, sin; kill thousands of small children, infants who are innocent of any wrong-doing, sin.

David even asks a very wise question to God. Why punish others when he was the one guilty:

I have sinned; I, the shepherd,[c] have done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done?

Off course the perfect God of the Bible does not answer the question. How would he?!!!

Q: How can anyone be so oblivious to such a huge discrepancy, contradiction between the supposed attributes of God (omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence, perfect wisdom, justice, mercy) and the actions of this being portrait in the Bible?

Q: How can anyone praise, worship a being that inflicts so easily, so much suffering and death to thousands of innocent children? How can one call this being benevolent or wise or loving?

Q: How can anyone in their right mind, with their rational faculties intact defend such actions and not smell the foul stench of nonsense rotting their brain?

I see the problem as taking the Bible far too literally.

Only real fanatics would interpret this text as it is literally translated into English, and then condemn God based on this.

One thing there is that God is not speaking Himself, as it is some prophet named Gad and even Gad is not the one writing the book of "2 Samuel", which means it is not second hand but at least a third hand account which means some parts of the story might be incomplete or inaccurate.

An honest Scholar would likely interpret this as "literally" being there was a plague at that time and the people blamed King David for the plague and thereafter the blame fell of God as the one who sent the plague, and the so called "plague" might have just been the measles or some other common virus which killed many people.

It also seems likely that the number of 70,000 is exaggerated unless they went around counting the dead, and the dispute with God in the first place was that they were NOT to count the fighting men, so counting the dead would seem risky indeed.

In verse 24 it says that the real sin was committed by the people of Israel, so it was not really against David, and so the punishment went accordingly to the same people.

The real Father God always tells the people to repent and to do right - but the people just keep rebelling back then as they still do today.

Most of Christians that responded here believe the story literally.
Most of Christians in general believe the story literally.
The majority of Christians are "real fanatics" as you point out .
They take the stories not matter how bad and fantastical literally.
My arguments are with such Christians.



Q: Why cherry pick the bible? Why not denounce it all?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 8 by JP Cusick]

I see the problem as taking the Bible far too literally.

Only real fanatics would interpret this text as it is literally translated into English, and then condemn God based on this.

One thing there is that God is not speaking Himself, as it is some prophet named Gad and even Gad is not the one writing the book of "2 Samuel", which means it is not second hand but at least a third hand account which means some parts of the story might be incomplete or inaccurate.

An honest Scholar would likely interpret this as "literally" being there was a plague at that time and the people blamed King David for the plague and thereafter the blame fell of God as the one who sent the plague, and the so called "plague" might have just been the measles or some other common virus which killed many people.

It also seems likely that the number of 70,000 is exaggerated unless they went around counting the dead, and the dispute with God in the first place was that they were NOT to count the fighting men, so counting the dead would seem risky indeed.

In verse 24 it says that the real sin was committed by the people of Israel, so it was not really against David, and so the punishment went accordingly to the same people.

The real Father God always tells the people to repent and to do right - but the people just keep rebelling back then as they still do today.

1 Samuel 6:
29. And He smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter. (KJV)

That's 50,070 people slain by God, according to 1 Samuel 6:19. Did all 50,070 that died look into the ark pf the Lord? No probably not. God "smote" them anyway. Many scholars today consider that this number should not be taken "literally" either. Apparently the Bible is not entirely trustworthy source when it comes to historical events and need not be taken literally. So it is not necessary to believe that Joshua ACTUALLY stopped the sun and moon in the sky for a full day (Joshua 10: 12-13), or that hordes of dead people ACTUALLY came up out of their graves and wandered the streets of Jerusalem (Matt. 27 52-53).

That the corpse of Jesus returned to life and then subsequently flew away, THAT of course is to be taken literally. Because believers are nothing if not flexible and creative in what they choose to believe.