God kills 70000 Israelites!!!

[alexxcJRO]

According to the perfect inerrant word of God(Bible) the omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent Yahweh kills 70,000 Israelites including countless of innocent(of any wrong-doing, sin) small children, infants for the sin of one man(David) after he or Satan incites him to sin:

2 Samuel 24

“David Enrolls the Fighting Men
24 Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.�
2 So the king said to Joab and the army commanders[a] with him, “Go throughout the tribes of Israel from Dan to Beersheba and enroll the fighting men, so that I may know how many there are.�
3 But Joab replied to the king, “May the LORD your God multiply the troops a hundred times over, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it. But why does my lord the king want to do such a thing?�
4 The king’s word, however, overruled Joab and the army commanders; so they left the presence of the king to enroll the fighting men of Israel.
5 After crossing the Jordan, they camped near Aroer, south of the town in the gorge, and then went through Gad and on to Jazer. 6 They went to Gilead and the region of Tahtim Hodshi, and on to Dan Jaan and around toward Sidon. 7 Then they went toward the fortress of Tyre and all the towns of the Hivites and Canaanites. Finally, they went on to Beershebain the Negev of Judah.
8 After they had gone through the entire land, they came back to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days.
9 Joab reported the number of the fighting men to the king: In Israel there were eight hundred thousand able-bodied men who could handle a sword, and in Judah five hundred thousand.
10 David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, “I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing.�
11 Before David got up the next morning, the word of the LORD had come to Gad the prophet, David’s seer: 12 “Go and tell David, ‘This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.’�
13 So Gad went to David and said to him, “Shall there come on you three years of famine in your land? Or three months of fleeing from your enemies while they pursue you? Or three days of plague in your land? Now then, think it over and decide how I should answer the one who sent me.�
14 David said to Gad, “I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into human hands.�
15 So the LORD sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died. 16 When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the LORD relented concerning the disaster and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, “Enough! Withdraw your hand.� The angel of the LORD was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
17 When David saw the angel who was striking down the people, he said to the LORD, “I have sinned; I, the shepherd,[c] have done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done? Let your hand fall on me and my family.� “

Observation: The account in 1 Chronicles is different then the account in 2 Samuel. (So much for the perfect, inerrant word of God)

Someone would wonder what abominable sin David committed that angered God so much to make him act in such horrendous way: killing tens of thousands of men, woman and children.

Hold on your straps people, here it comes: He did a census!!!

Imagine that. The poor guy did a census and Yahweh in his perfect wisdom, justice, benevolence decided that the punishment suited for this was not to punish in some way the person guilty of the wrong-doing, sin but instead kill 70 000 people innocent of this wrong-doing, sin; kill thousands of small children, infants who are innocent of any wrong-doing, sin.

David even asks a very wise question to God. Why punish others when he was the one guilty:

“I have sinned; I, the shepherd,[c] have done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done?�

Off course the perfect God of the Bible does not answer the question. How would he?!!!

Q: How can anyone be so oblivious to such a huge discrepancy, contradiction between the supposed attributes of God (omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence, perfect wisdom, justice, mercy) and the actions of this being portrait in the Bible?

Q: How can anyone praise, worship a being that inflicts so easily, so much suffering and death to thousands of innocent children? How can one call this being benevolent or wise or loving?

Q: How can anyone in their right mind, with their rational faculties intact defend such actions and not smell the foul stench of nonsense rotting their brain?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 95 by Danmark]

And yet I see no response to any of the actual questions I asked.

I don't recognize any of God's acts to be anything but purely good and just. If this leaves you perplexed it might be an idea to listen to alternative interepretations of events as presented in context as I have consistently done. It seems your response to my questions designed to help you to do so was that you "... don't know what to say" ; generally speaking when I "don't know what to say" I find it better to say nothing.

Feel free to try again if you are so inclined,

JW

[Bust Nak]

Let me have a go at those questions:

To whom does planet earth belong?

Trick question? Satan or God depending on context.

Is destroying your own property evil?

Depends on the property and circumstance involved.

Is taking back what is yours, given on condition, evil?

Depends on the circumstance involved.

Has God ever destroy "every living thing on earth"?

No.

Who decides what is "necessary" and unnessisary" pain?

No one decides objective facts. Logic dictates what is necessary and unnecessary.

Who decides if Abraham was tortured or tested? You?

These need not be mutually exclusive. Try putting yourself in the shoe of someone who is being forced to kill their own son.

Is there any evidence Abraham considered his God his "torturer"?

No.

Who decides what is evil? You?

Correct.

If so, doesn't that make you the very thing you deny exists?

No.

I don't recognize any of God's acts to be anything but purely good and just. If this leaves you perplexed it might be an idea to listen to alternative interepretations of events as presented in context as I have consistently done.

The problem is that you, and Christians in general, seem to start with the premise that God's acts are always purely good and just, then you interpret the Bible in such a way that is less than intuitive in order fit that premise. It is this attitude that is perplexing, not fact that you don't recognize God's acts as anything but good.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 95 by Danmark]

And yet I see no response to any of the actual questions I asked.

I don't recognize any of God's acts to be anything but purely good and just. If this leaves you perplexed it might be an idea to listen to alternative interepretations of events as presented in context as I have consistently done. It seems your response to my questions designed to help you to do so was that you "... don't know what to say" ; generally speaking when I "don't know what to say" I find it better to say nothing.

'Perplexed' isn't the word that comes to mind. What I find revealing is that several 'Christians' here won't agree that killing babies, the unborn, and genocide are examples of evil. The general excuse given is "God can do anything he wants because he is God." This mirrors the logic of Islamic extremists who say essentially the same thing. No wonder so many, and the number is increasing, say "Save us from religion!"

[Danmark]

The problem is that you, and Christians in general, seem to start with the premise that God's acts are always purely good and just, then you interpret the Bible in such a way that is less than intuitive in order fit that premise. It is this attitude that is perplexing, not fact that you don't recognize God's acts as anything but good.

In sum, Christians say,
"Good is whatever God does"
"Evil is whatever opposes God."
Non theists say,
"We evaluate what is good based on whether it helps people."
"Evil is what is harmful to others."

[JP Cusick]

[Replying to post 95 by Danmark]

And yet I see no response to any of the actual questions I asked.

I too looked over the comments and "Danmark" really did give you a direct reply and really he hit hard at it.

You may not like his response - but you are being unjust to dismiss his response as being no response.

The thing is that he is doing as most people do which is to blame God for what people do.

He says that it is wrong even for God to destroy God's own property, and his point about His own children is hard hitting, but again it is humanity that destroys the earth, and it is humanity which hurts God's children, and he is just blaming God for what people do. And we do get to judge what is torture, but he does not get to blame the torture onto God when people are doing the torture. You "JW" are trying to give God a free-pass or justification when God is not guilty.

I might add that the OP was created just to stir up strife and hostility based on a bunch of false and misleading claims, so this was created as a trap of immorality, see my posting #11.

I don't recognize any of God's acts to be anything but purely good and just. If this leaves you perplexed it might be an idea to listen to alternative interepretations of events as presented in context as I have consistently done.

I agree with you here - that the real Father God is always righteous and just based on truth and reality.

Yes - alternative interpretations indeed.

[JehovahsWitness]

Let me have a go at those questions:

To whom does planet earth belong?

Trick question? Satan or God depending on context.

The context is the bibilcal God under discussion. Are there any verses in the bible were the planet (earth) is spoken of as belonging to Satan?

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 116 by JehovahsWitness]

I am thinking of verses that refer to Satan as "god of this world" in 2 Corinthians 4:4; as "prince of the world" in John 14:30 and others like these.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 117 by Bust Nak]

WHO OWNS THE EARTH?

DEUTERONOMY 10:14
Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens belong to Jehovah thy God; the earth and all that is therein. - Darby Bible Translation

Jehovah God (YHWH) by way of being the Creator of the universe by definition holds ultimate ownership over all Creation. The bible implies God handed stuardship of the planet earth and the animal kingdom to humans (compare Ps 115:16). The placing of divine laws to which man must submit indicates that in doing this God did not resign from his position of Supreme Ruler and universal Judge; so we can rightly speak of the earth being "given" to humans on condition. At no point is there ever any mention of God giving the planet earth to Satan.

Some bible translations, notably the King James version have traditionally translated several different greek words into the english word "world" so we do well to distinguish between the planet earth, greek ge (from which come the English words “geography� and “geology�) which refers to “earth; ground; soil; land� and the word found in 2 Corinthians 4:4 and other similar verses.

QUESTION Do scriptures that speak of Satan being the god of this "world" indicate that Satan in fact owns the planet earth?

The greek word found in 2 Corinthians 4:4 and other similar passages, translated in many bibles (including the King James Version) as "the world" is "aion"* . It basically means "age" or "period". This word refers, not to the physical planet created by Yawheh (JEHOVAH) God but rather to the state or the order of affairs that distinguish a certain period of time, epoch, or age. R. C. Trench in Synonyms of the New Testament (London, 1961, p. 203) explains, it refers to that “ which exists in the world under conditions of time�. We use the word age in a similar way today when we refer to “Dark Ages,� or “Victorian Era,� or, more recently, the “Space Age.� Thus various bible translate 2 Corinthians 4:4 in the following way

New International Version
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Weymouth New Testament
in whom the god of this present age has blinded their unbelieving minds so as to shut out the sunshine of the Good News of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God.

* Another related world which is often translated into the english "world" is 'kosmos' which generally refers to mankind/humankind ie human society

CONCLUSION So Satan at no time has been given ownership of the planet, but he has been given liberty to create his own "a state of affairs", "age", or as the NWT puts it a "system of things" with distinguishable features; in short Satan is the God of this "age" but the planet still belongs to Jehovah

[JehovahsWitness]

Is destroying your own property evil?

Depends on the property and circumstance involved.

So destroying your own property cannot automatically be deemed as "evil" and there may be "circumstances" that deem it not evil. Is that what you mean by "depends" ?

[bluethread]

BY DEFINITION, hurtful acts that are not necessary, are evil. Except for the special case of 'God,' where you exonerate 'him' because he is God. Do you disagree? Do you claim that torturing the innocent, that killing babies, that rape and the other things listed, are NOT evil?

Do you contend this to be an absolute definition, or is it a definition derived from cultural consensus? There are other issues to address with regard to your definition of evil, but let's just take this one step at a time.