Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

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Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #1

Post by William »

I have recently being injecting the idea of afterlife from the perspective of people who have experienced OOBEs and NDEs who for the most part are not Christians and share their experiences in the knowledge that they understand the experience as something which they had a part in creating for themselves.

Now I want to shift that from the non-Christian experiences being shared, to those of Christians who have had the same types of experiences and report back the same types of encounters but who don't always report that they understand their experience(s) to be something of their own creation.

It is my understanding that the experiences are both very similar in nature but also unique to the individual. 'Heavens' and 'hells' are also unique to the individual, but encounters with entities are remarkably similar.
THIS WOMAN DIED TWICE, FIRST WENT TO HELL, THEN EXPERIENCED HEAVEN AND MET JESUS
[yt]HvlWYOvtYRo[/yt]

In the channel description is the claim "100% PROOF THAT CHRISTIANITY IS THE TRUTH " which - if Christians were to do serious study on the subject of the Astral Realm from the testimonies of those who say they have experienced this, would come to understand that what it shows is that life doesn't end at the death of the body, and that Christianity is not the only religion which believes such and nor are Christians the only ones who have these experiences.

For that matter, many non religious individuals have experienced this, and while it does indeed change their whole outlook on life, and they adopt a more spiritual outlook, they do not see any necessity in suddenly coming to the conclusion that Christianity is 'The Truth' or that they have to become Christians because of their experiences.

The key points of this particular personal testimony are;

✪ She had her first NDE while in a coma, (2008) in which she ended up in a 'dark place' which she describes as extremely terrifying and refers to as 'hell' and accompanied by a feeling of dread and loss.

✪ Upon awakening from her coma, she recounted her experience to her loved ones gathered around her, and there was verification in relation to what she experienced with what they experienced in regard to a particular time in her experience to which she was aware of to do with the particular event she was speaking about, which coincided with the doctors notifying the family that she was dying and asking the family to gather and say their final goodbyes.

✪ This was then regarded as a miracle that she came through and recovered and due to being told a particular church group had been praying for her, she eventually joined that church and became a 'born again' Christian.

✪ In 2011 she fell sick again and was placed into a coma. She experienced an OOBE and this time it was different. She was floating above her body -looking down at it in the hospital bed. She then experienced a male entity join her and the entity was 'as bright as the sun' only looking at him didn't hurt her eyes.

✪ She experience a profound feeling of pure love from this entity - a love she has never felt from anyone in her whole experience, even from her family or parents... she describes the love was for her and was so strong and powerful and she just knew this entity loved her and this also gave her a feeling of being totally safe and protected and at peace.

✪ She says that there was telepathic communication between her and the entity but that she cannot remember what was said to her and she believes that the entity was Jesus himself.

✪ She comments that she is aware of other testimonies from others who have experienced similar encounters with this alternate reality. She also says she believes that she experienced 'a section of hell' rather then 'the whole of hell'. She says the same in regard to her second experience - that she was 'in a part of heaven' but did not see 'all of heaven'.

✪ She ends her testimony stating that 'we don't just die but go somewhere else and that hell is real, heaven is real and Jesus is real.

Now obviously she makes certain assumptions which are connected to her beliefs and these should be taken in that context. Her parting comments generally show what motivates a lot of Christians in relation to their beliefs.

Point being, as anyone can see through a bit of investigating into such stories will begin to see clearly that there is more than meets the eye as the pieces all fit together, re all such stories of such type experiences. Stories which not only are not going to go away or be so easily ignored/swept under the carpet - but will continue to grow in number as more people having them, share them with the world.



Questions for those who are Judaist, Christian or Muslim, are;

1: To what degree do you believe that these experiences are indicative of truth and need to regarded as genuine?

2: In relation to other faiths, where people encounter similar experiences, how does that stand in relation to your own faith in your own particular beliefs re the group/denomination you invest in?

3: In relation to those who are of no particular faith and have similar - life changing experiences, (these ones often become more spiritual but not necessarily develop religious beliefs) how does that stand in relation to your own faith in your own particular beliefs re the group/denomination you invest in?

Thanks.

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Post #11

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote:
why would a 'a demon PRETENDING to be Jesus' do this ...

I can think of several reasons, one being it would convince people of the original lie, namely "You will not die".
  • To my knowledge most organised religions and a good proportion of individuals that do not associate with any organized religions, believe that death in the sense of non-existence/ the ceasing of all existence does not exist. In short they believe all reference to "death" is, In reality a continued consciouse existence in another lifeform. So for all intents and purposes nobody ever "dies" they simply transition from one form of life to another. This makes the God of the bible (YHWH), who told Eve "You wil die" a liar. Who but the DEMONS would have an interest in contradicting YHWH and painting Him out to be a liar?
William wrote:
why would a 'a demon PRETENDING to be Jesus' do this if all that it achieved was the woman becoming a Christian?
It would indeed be counterproductive if all nominal Christans had God's approval and would by virtue of this have everlasting life. However the bible indicates this is not the case.
  • Jesus, in Matthew chapter 7 is reported as explaining that many people will have accepted Jesus as e their Lord (and presumably their saviour) and will in fact be able to perform exorcism and other powerful works (some translations use the "miracles") yet they will be categorized by him (Jesus) as "workers of evil". Since God's spirit has no share with what is evil, evidently these supernatural powers and events were not of divine origin. If these exorcism, miracles and prophecies were not from God it seems reasonable to conclude they are of demonic or Satanic origin.
Who but the DEMONS would have an interest in driving people, by virtue of impressive supernatural experiences, to theologies that would result in those ones being rejected by Jesus? If rejection at Jesus final judgement means eternal destruction, who but Satan and the DEMONS would be interested in duping people to adopt such theology?
CONCLUSION Humans are hopelessly vulnerable when it comes to demons. Spirits are superior to humans in every way, they can see us and manipulate our environment but we evidently cannot see them. If a human especially one in a physically and/or mentally and emotionally weakened condition (as for example at the point of death), is told to "move towards the light" by "Jesus" it's pretty much guaranteed that person will, believe them without question and should they live become a fervent advocate of a theology in direct contrast to bible truth.

RELATED QUESTIONS

What is the condition of the dead?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 715#918715

Are the demons omniscient?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 291#848291
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #12

Post by Donray »

[Replying to post 11 by JehovahsWitness]

First off, you have no proof that demons exist.

What are demons made of? Where do demons live? Why cannot demons be seen?

You need to answer a few questions about demons. Are you willing to discuss your proof that they exist?

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Post #13

Post by William »

[Replying to post 11 by JehovahsWitness]

The main problem with your theology here is that it depends upon passages in a book being truthful to begin with.

It relies heavily on the belief that a spiritual force working against GOD is allowed to interfere with the human experience in a manner in which GOD 'himself' largely refuses to do, and trusts in the idea that this is an acceptable way in which the GOD can 'sort out' those who believe in him on account of what others say rather than what they personally experience, and adds to that the 'right' to call what others experience as 'demonic forces tricking the unwary'.

The belief itself I liken to something along the lines of saying, "You had a nightmare - go back to sleep".

Those who have not had such experience are simply unable to even understand what it is like to experience unconditional love and acceptance and understanding and compassion and realization. Yet, despite the ignorance, are happy enough to make the charge that 'evil demonic spirits' are the ones behind these expressions of goodness and are even willing to claim that such a thing is possible!

Where ones argument falls on its face is that there are also beings encountered who are indeed 'demonic' in nature and certainly do not exhibit anything like unconditional love and acceptance and understanding and compassion and the differences are easily enough to see for that.

Those who fall under the influence of such explanations which hold up their personal beliefs are attempting to have their cake and to eat it too.

I briefly mentioned that in my last reply to you, when I wrote;
If one is unable to discern a demon from the being the woman says she engaged with, how is one to trust anything, either in vision or in writ... or for that matter, writ about vision?

One cannot defend even their own GOD if one cannot discern any obvious distinction between those doing the work of GOD and those doing the work of the Devil.
I will expand on this argument - if not to convince you, then at least to inform the reader.

If you apply the idea that demonic spirits are behind these things which people experience and their purpose is to deceive human beings, then one has to include everything in the bible from the first story re the GOD in the garden and through to Daniel in the lions den, the parting of the seas - the competition between the Pharaohs magicians and Moses magic, - which - even argued that this was to demonstrate that Moses magic was more powerful than the magic of the Egyptians doesn't mean that it wasn't all a big deception, and visions that individuals had, their being taken up into the heavens (Astral Realms as they are referred to nowadays) and the miracles attributed to Jesus having done the experience Saul had - all of these things would have to be considered as possible deceptions of demonic 'spirit beings' all designed to deceive the human species.

If one cannot/will not agree with this observation, then it is simply a case of wanting one's cake and to eat it as well. The argument you present is - as it stands - no more reliable than a rotten old swing bridge over a canyon.

Furthermore, even related to the beliefs of the JWs, wherein is the assurance that what you expect to happen re your own beliefs on being resurrected and judged worthy of life, is that able to be held as something other than 'being deceived', as you so willingly want to think of other individual experiences which are not your own as being?


Jesus, in Matthew chapter 7 is reported as explaining that many people will have accepted Jesus as e their Lord (and presumably their saviour) and will in fact be able to perform exorcism and other powerful works (some translations use the "miracles") yet they will be categorized by him (Jesus) as "workers of evil". Since God's spirit has no share with what is evil, evidently these supernatural powers and events were not of divine origin. If these exorcism, miracles and prophecies were not from God it seems reasonable to conclude they are of demonic or Satanic origin.
Who are you or the organisation which supports you in your beliefs to judge who is who and which is which?

Is that not something which Jesus gives himself the right to judge. Did he give you or your organisation the right to judge others and their experiences?

The main problem with theologies based upon separatism and battles between good and evil forces is that it creates opportunity for the hollow droning of elitism to sound off and insinuate itself into reality as an authority it has no right to in the first place. Therein is the deception, demonic or otherwise.

The conundrum it causes is evident enough to the watchful observant who have either removed themselves from the debilitating affects of dualism or had the good fortune to be brought up not to involve themselves in that to begin with.

In all things yes - be cautious and diligent. It is not difficult to discern sincerity from deceptiveness if one knows what to look for but your beliefs overstep the mark significantly in proclaiming all these experiences are of demonic spirits and your position obviously forces you to see yourself and the JWs as 'the last word' on the subject of Christianity - the 'true Christians' who are not deceived like the rest are. That is certainly an expression of elitism and gives one reason to pause and reflect on who it is who is deceived - not necessarily by some outside evil force, but by their own inner feelings of superiority which spill out into the external world dressed up in the glorious imagery of saintliness. "Look at us! We are doing the LORDS work!"

One is wise to contemplate at the very least that these experiences people are having are genuine efforts to help people overcome the deceptions of human theologies which have presented a false image of GOD to the point where - without the experiences - those beliefs prove to be a major problem in the afterlife, and this is a good way to help counter that. That is my position in relation to the OP subject.

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Re: Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote:

If one is unable to discern a demon from the being the woman says she engaged with, how is one to trust anything, either in vision or in writ...One cannot defend even their own GOD if one cannot discern any obvious distinction between those doing the work of GOD and those doing the work of the Devil.
Thus we arrive at the crux of the matter: who, if anyone, do you trust?

1. Do not trust your own judgement
PROVERBS 14:12

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. - King James Bible
If we are talking about a spiritual dimension, inhabited by vastly superior unseen beings that have been alive for millions, possibly billions of years then we can reasonably assume that humans are at an immense disadvantage to say the least. It is simply illogical to believe a human on their own can outsmart a spirit or be able to tell who he's talking to based solely on how pleasant and tingly the sprit makes them feel. This can be likened to a woman going down a dark secluded alley with a stranger and saying I know he isn't a rapist because I asked him if he was a rapist and he said no.

2. Turn to God

If there is a loving God He will logically help humans in a way that does not leave us susceptible to being "groomed" by demons. Logically the True God, Creator and supreme ruler of the universe, if he exists, will be vastly superior to any created being or demon. So to identify Himself and anyone He uses as a messenger YHWH would first have to demonstrate that superiority. We have in the bible a written record of historical events when YHWH challenged the god's of the nation's, shook mountains, threw fire from heaven at the word of his representatives, parted seas dethroned monarchs, overthrew kingdoms ... this God stated in advance what he wanted to happen on the world scene and ensured that it did. Those that witnessed these events were apt to declare JEHOVAH (YHWH) is the True God!

3. Look to the Manuel

If these accounts are to be believed then humanity would have the basis by which to measure all subsequently supernatural encounters, a user's manual from the Creator who is best placed to provide mankind with the information they need to protect themselves. And anyone or any experience (including each subsequent prophet or inspired writer after Moses) would have to be examined in the light of the criteria set in the beginning.

CONCLUSION Humans are not qualified to distinguish between an angel and a demon alone, the only hope of protection from being "groomed" by demons is if there is a supreme ruler of the spirit realm who is loving enough to communicate information in a way that can be objectively examined outside of personal experience. If YHWH (Jehovah) has done this, and If the bible is the body of that essential information, then THE BIBLE becomes the criteria by which we can test if a personal experience is demonic in origin or not.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #15

Post by Donray »

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

Why don't you explin why your god created demons?

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Post #16

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
3. Look to the Manuel

If these accounts are to be believed...
There is no reason to doubt the accounts themselves. It is the interpretation of the accounts that are highly questionable.

...then humanity would have the basis by which to measure all subsequently supernatural encounters,
And there is the interpretation. There is absolutely no reason to interpret these as supernatural encounters.

a user's manual from the Creator who is best placed to provide mankind with the information they need to protect themselves.
You'd have to establish a reason to accept your claim that a creator exists and has provided a manual. Your failed to do either.

And anyone or any experience (including each subsequent prophet or inspired writer after Moses) would have to be examined in the light of the criteria set in the beginning.
Not until you have established that this beginning you speak of is valid. You failed to do this also.

THE BIBLE becomes the criteria by which we can test if a personal experience is demonic in origin or not.
That's odd. In another discussion you claimed it was the Holy Spirit. Of course given that you've never established that such a thing exists, that claim is easy to reject. Given that you haven't established that the BIBLE is trustworthy, it is as easy to reject as well.

To sum up, all you've done is provided unsupported assertions.

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Post #17

Post by William »

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

You didn't actually answer my argument. Quoting biblical verse doth not an answer make.

How do you explain how the magic you believe in the biblical stories is genuine GOD-magic while individuals subjective experiences is just demons tricking them. What validates one and not the other?

You are simply using the bible itself to say 'see! These are 'acts of GOD not acts of demons' yet the argument was 'why should you be allowed your cake and eat it too while proclaiming others are merely deceived?'

If one cannot trust their own judgement, what should they trust? Their own judgment about the bible? Someone's else's?

Should I trust your judgement or should I trust GODs?

If GOD allows for me or anyone else to have these experiences and learn from these (among other things) that there is more to life than death, why should I trust your interpretations?

What stops GOD from giving you similar experiences? The fact that you will say it is 'The Devil and his Demons'?

I say again;
If one cannot/will not agree with this observation, then it is simply a case of wanting one's cake and to eat it as well. The argument you present is - as it stands - no more reliable than a rotten old swing bridge over a canyon.

Furthermore, even related to the beliefs of the JWs, wherein is the assurance that what you expect to happen re your own beliefs on being resurrected and judged worthy of life, is that able to be held as something other than 'being deceived', as you so willingly want to think of other individual experiences which are not your own as being?
Rather than throwing irrelevant bible quotes at the argument, why don't you just trust yourself enough to address it.

If it is just a matter of being unsure of yourself and afraid of such things, why not just own that instead of claiming those who have experiences (which you really have no first -hand experience of yourself,) are being 'deceived by demons'?

CONCLUSION Humans are not qualified to distinguish between an angel and a demon alone, the only hope of protection from being "groomed" by demons is if there is a supreme ruler of the spirit realm who is loving enough to communicate information in a way that can be objectively examined outside of personal experience. If YHWH (Jehovah) has done this, and If the bible is the body of that essential information, then THE BIBLE becomes the criteria by which we can test if a personal experience is demonic in origin or not.
So the one quote you did give related to demons deceiving was answered by me. One account is not good enough, and nor was your interpretation of that script, using it as you did, to justify your own organizations position on this.

What are the specifics related to the undeniable scriptures which say that subjective experiences of the alternate kind are required to be given the green light thumbs up seal of genuine approval 'because the bible tells us so'?

Indeed, what of these experiences (re the youtube links) specifically show anyone that these women were being deceived by demons?

As well as this, what about those biblical scripts which clearly show that these alternate experiences can indeed be had and are not regarded as 'demonic' in the least?

eta;

Also it should be pointed out that all biblical reference to alternate experiences are subjective experience anyway and would require something other than biblical reference to vouch for their legitimacy.

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Post #18

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 17 by William]

ACTS OF GOD OR ACTS OF DEMONS?


Logically if demons are created beings then their creator is superior in power and ability. In order to identify Himself as the Supreme ruler (and the one that should be trusted) this One would logically have to make a demonstration of power that cannot be matched by those that are lesser .
William wrote:How do you explain how the magic you believe in the biblical stories is genuine GOD-magic while individuals subjective experiences is just demons tricking them. What validates one and not the other?
The degree of power demonstrated. Evidently demons do have a degree of power, certainly enough to impress gullible humans ( showing them lights, moving furniture, observing actions and then reporting them to individuals that were not present and couldn't possible have accessed the information themselves, and of course impersonating dead loved ones ect ) but can they raise the dead?

Raising somebody that has died back to life is powerful evidence of having divine backing. Why? Because only an uncreated first source can create new life. Logically, no created being can source his own life and no created being can return that life to someone once dead (devoid of life) without it being on the authority of the source. The bible contains reliable and verified reports of resurrection by Prophets and representatives of the God YHWH. Unlike So called near death experiences where people claim to have been "dead" for seconds or minut (and usually brought back by a doctor and a swift shock to the heart with an AED machine) these reports center on individuals dead for hours even days.

CONCLUSION So my advice to some faced with a spirit that lifts them out of a chair, tells you you have a an yet undetected cancer or asks them to "Step towards the light" is to ask the "good spirit": Can you raise the dead? Let's get some Witneses, go to a cemetery and then you can demonstrate you have the power over death because I know JEHOVAH can and I'm not trusting anyone less."
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 18 by JehovahsWitness]
William wrote: If one cannot trust their own judgement, what should they trust?
TRUST THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY

Since any genuine encounter with the spirit world is vastly outside the field of reference any human, they would need to seek a higher authority than themselves to make a decision.
  • To illistrate: Imagine it like someone born blind and given a coloured card. Before them also sits a stranger that says this card is RED. He seems nice and honest and treats him kindly. What however if misidentfying the colour of the card could cost him his life. How then can he resolve if he is being shown red or not? How can he tell If he is being lied to? He seeks advice from others in the same situation, also blind, so they too have no way of telling what the colour is, but they confirm "Yes I encountered the same individual and I too was told it was RED". Does that mean it's red? Should he trust the stranger or are they all being duped? Seeking blind person after blind person cannot resolve the matter, when the blind lead the blind we all know were that ends up, no matter how many personal testimonies.
SEEK OUTSIDE HELP

Now imagine there is someone that the blind man knows OUTSIDE the institution that is sighted. He knows that one has been confirmed by outside sources as both sighted and honest. The blind man seeks help. He is informed by this outside source that the individual concerned is a known liar, that he has duped people in the institution before and is method of operation is to show blind people GREEN cards and tell them the card is RED. He is advised to bring the individual to him, the outside authority, and they will examine the card together. When the stranger is later offered this option he becomes violent, abusive and refusing any contact with the higher authority leaves never to return.
CONCLUSION Lacking ourselves the insight to make a judgement when it comes to the spirit world , a dimension we are completely blind in, it is logical to take the matter to a trusted expert. Everyone can have access to the "manual of instruction" authorised by the highest authority in the field on such matters, JEHOVAH God*.

* NOTE: Demons often become extremely violent, abusive and finally uncommunacative when individuals make a sincere effort to enter into a relationship with JEHOVAH, the God of the bible.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #20

Post by William »

[Replying to post 19 by JehovahsWitness]
Since any genuine encounter with the spirit world is vastly outside the field of reference any human, they would need to seek a higher authority than themselves to make a decision.
Below is a video which I have also summarized in point. If one wishes to regard ancient cultural superstitions as more the 'authority' on the subject than personal testimony of experience and modern scientific enquiry, that is - of course - entirely one's own choice. It doesn't make for great argument in a debate setting. 'tis all, and certainly wouldn't be appreciated on my doorstep.

Dr. Bruce Greyson: Near-death Experiences-Jeff Olsen shares his personal NDE

[yt]kRmTYHcBXsk[/yt]
[font=Serif]Dr. Bruce Greyson, a faculty member at the UVA Division of Perceptual Studies, presents his research on near-death experiences in the second half of this video. Prior to Dr. Greyson's presentation, we hear author Jeff Olsen describing his own personal and profound near-death experience.

The UVA DOPS faculty gathered to offer public lectures at the Boston Museum of Science on September 17th, 2016, as part of a special one day event, "Do We Survive Death? A Look at the Evidence". This event was sponsored by Tracy Coen.

The Division of Perceptual Studies (DOPS) is a research unit within the Department of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia Health System. The research faculty of the Division are known internationally for their expertise and research integrity in the investigation of phenomena relevant to the nature of consciousness and its relationship to the physical world.
[/font]




The Personal Testimony of Jeff Olsen Summery.

✡ Background - American - raised on a farm
✡ Worked in an ad agency as a creative director.
✡ Was told by the voice within 'Share your experience and people will heal".
✡ The experience happened from an automobile accident.
✡ He believes he may have dozed off at the wheel
✡ Wife and 2 sons were with him and his wife and one son died instantly
✡ He felt that his wife and youngest son had 'gone' and heard only his older son
crying in the back, but he could not reach his son because he was pinned down and
couldn't move his legs or breath.
✡ In the horror of the situation he suddenly felt calmness
✡ He felt he was surrounded a tangible by light and that the light seemed alive and
comforted him.
✡ He rose above the scene of carnage and was joined by his wife.
✡ He was relieved. But his wife was telling him that he had to go back. He felt that
he had a choice to go back or to stay.
✡ As soon as he made the conscious thought that he was going back, he found himself wandering around in a hospital.
✡ Everyone he encountered in that state at the hospital, he felt he 'knew them all perfectly' as if he was connected to all of them on that intimate level. He felt like he was 'them' and there was a 'Oneness' - connection. (Panentheism).
✡ Since he had been brought up a Christian and was familiar with biblical script, as he was having this experience a well known verse "in as much as you have done it unto the least of these, you have done it unto me" (Panentheism) which he had always thought of as a nice verse about being kind to people. His experience was showing him another way in which to understand the verse...'we are all each other'.
✡ He realizes that our consciousness is affected by our upbringing but that this experience cut through that in how he could relate the biblical with the experience.
✡ With the experience came waves of unconditional love. (a common aspect of this type of NDE)
✡ He stood in front of his broken body on the hospital bed and understood that how he was experiencing his self in this heightened state of awareness outside of his body, allowed him to understand his body was his 'skin suit'.
✡ He made the decision to go back into the body and immediately had the pain and feelings of guilt etc.
✡ The experience positively changed him in fundamental ways
✡ He understand that hope has turned to trust and that everything is unfolding perfectly, not matter how bad it might look.
✡ Questions still remain:

1: How do we make sense of it?
2: How do we express it in a way that anyone can understand it?
3: If we have consciousness that is not our brain, if we are not necessarily our bodies and if there is something more?

He sees the importance of the research in that it could help shift human perspective to raise the consciousness of the planet humanity take a stronger stand for love, connection, oneness, brother/sisterhood to shift the world where there is more peace love and unity.


Dr. Bruce Greyson - studies of NDEs and ongoing results summary.

NDEs are;
✡ Reported profound experiences in which individuals seem to leave their physical bodies and move beyond the boundaries of time and space
✡ Have been reported by many diverse ancient cultures and appear in the writings of Plato, the Bible, in Tibetan, Indian, Egyptian, Chinese, Japanese writ, And in South Pacific and Native American folklore.

The interpretation of the experience may vary from one culture to another but the basic experience is the same over the centuries and around the globe.

✡ The study of NDEs has been going on for the past 50 years
✡ Not all experiences are like Jeffs and they are not all the same
✡ There is a core which is similar in all NDEs
✡ It is hard to study NDEs because when people are asked to share what happened to them they often start by saying 'well it can't be put into words - there are no words for this!'...and researchers say 'great! Tell me all about it!'
✡ Thus the researchers know that but getting people to put their experiences into words that they are distorting the situation.
✡They do not study the experience but what they are told about the experience.
✡ Studies at the university of Virginia, United Kingdom and Holland have shown that among people who have documented brushes with death, between 10-20% will report having NDEs, remembering the experiences clearly, and are able to put that into words and choose to do so
✡The generally guideline created through studying hundreds and hundreds of NDEs used in order to understand the NDEs are;
Group Features of NDEs

1: Changes in thinking and thought processes
Sense of time distorts or is missing entirely.
Thinking is faster and often clearer than ever before.
Life review with panoramic memory
Sudden understanding and revelation.

2: Changes in emotions feelings
Sense of peace and well-being
Feelings of Joy
A sense of cosmic unity and oneness with everything
Encounter with bright light being who is characterized as unconditional love

3: (so-called) paranormal feature of experiences.
Extraordinary sensory vividness
Frank extrasensory perception
Visions of the future
A sense of leaving the physical body


4: Otherworldly features
Finding oneself in a mystical unearthly realm of existence
Encountering mystic beings or presense
Seeing deceased spirits or religious spirits
Coming to a boarder which you cannot go past if you are to survive and have to return to your body.

Most NDEs have some of all of these features in them.

Research with NDEs is always retrospective. Sometimes the experience happened many years before and what happened has to be reconstructed.
NDEers will typically say that 'it was like it happened yesterday' as the vividness has not gone away.
We know that our memories are faulty, and we distort things over time. How can we know that the memories of NDEs are accurate?
Skeptics argue that the experiences retold, are embellishments.
Because the studies have been going on for 5 decades now, this gives opportunity for researches to address this question.
In 2002 Dr. Greyson began tracking down people he had interviewed about their NDEs in the early 1980s and he asked them to again describe their experiences to him. Something very interesting was found in this...in the retelling there were no noticeable embellishments, changes in thinking, feeling, etc...after 20 years. NDE memories are reliable over time. Thus retrospective research is also reliable.

✡ The phenomena is the same re going through a long dark space to get to a light, although different cultures explain this in different ways using different metaphors.

✡ The UVA has been collecting NDE reports since the early 1960s and the collected data.
They compared 24 of the best cases they had before 1975 with 24 cases from the last decade (2000s) matched in terms of age, race, gender, religiosity, how they came close to death and how close to death they came.
In those cases there were no significant differences when compared.

After-effects; in both sets of samples, 100% on those who experienced NDEs reported dramatic attitude changes, less fear of death, having difficulty telling other people, increased belief in survival, and others corroborating what they experienced OOB in terms of saying (example) "yes that is what happened, but how could you have known that when you were in a coma (seen as being unconscious)?"

The test above was given to see if the NDEs were influenced by any wide public knowledge of Dr. Raymond Moody's Near-Death Experience Research and best selling book which was published after 1975

✡ Interpretations of NDEs may be influenced by culture (such as JWs belief that these are caused by 'demons'.) but the basic experience is not determined by ones culture.

How are the experiences explained?

✡ There are no variables known as of yet which can predict if someone is going to have an NDE or what kind of NDE one is going to have.

✡ Age, gender, race, religion, history of mental illness, none of these things are associated with NDEs or specific types of NDEs.

Speculation re physiological causes which may be related to NDEs;

✡ Lack of oxygen
✡ Endorphins
✡ Temporal lobe seizures

The bottom line with all these explanations is that one cannot reconcile the enhanced mental functioning and heightened perceptions - faster and clearer thinking, detailed memories, with the fact that the brain is not functioning.

Why care about NDEs?

1: That they lead to a consistent pattern of changes in attitudes, beliefs and values.

These have been confirmed through long term studies of NDEers over decades as well as with interviews with their significant others, and often the changes have increased over time.

Dramatic increases in;

✡ Spirituality
✡ Compassion and concern for others
✡ Appreciation fro life
✡ Sense of meaning and purpose
✡ Confidence and flexibility in coping with the stressful.
✡ Belief in survival after death

It is noted that some of these things happen to many who come close to death (but do not experience NDEs but others are unique to NDEers.

Decreases after NDE;

✡ Decrease or absence of fear of death
✡ Interest in material possessions
✡ Interest in personal status
✡ Competitiveness (more interest in cooperation and altruistic activities)

Sometimes the changes are so marked that they seem to be different people than they were before the experience.

2: What they tell us about the possibility of survival after death. NDEs provide some evidence bearing on this possibility.

Is death the end of ones existence or just a change of state?

Evidence of survival from NDEs

Enhanced mental function with impaired brains (Example of this 44:42 in video.)

We cannot explain, using the materialistic model, that 'the mind is what the brain does' when there is no brain function but there is enhanced mind function.

Accurate perception from OOB location (Example 46:23)

Visits with deceased persons, especially those in which accurate information is communicated and deceased persons not known by the NDEer to have died. (Examples 48:32 and 49:00)

The bottom line suggests that mind and brain are not the same thing. The NDEs show that the mind functions well - and even better - when the brain is not functioning.

NDEs allow one to question basic assumptions about our existence and purpose

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