Desire

Argue for and against Christianity

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dio9
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Desire

Post #1

Post by dio9 »

Christianity is vague about the cause of suffering. But without doubt realize people are suffering. They call it sin. And everyone suffers under the curse of sin. But not what causes sin. What is the cause of sin? We dance around the tree of knowledge. Never knowing. Would it help if we knew the cause of our suffering? Christianity simply doesn't give us the answer. What is the root of universal human suffering? Is it haven eaten An apple or a peach?

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Desire

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

dio9 wrote: What is the cause of sin?

The bible is very clear, "sin is", it says "lawlessness". Thus sin is caused by breaking God's law.



Further reading The truth about sin
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010414



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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:07 am, edited 7 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

dio9
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Re: Desire

Post #3

Post by dio9 »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

would you say humans are out of sync with God ? And would you agree the rest of creation is in sync with divine law?

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marco
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Re: Desire

Post #4

Post by marco »

dio9 wrote: [Replying to JehovahsWitness]

would you say humans are out of sync with God ? And would you agree the rest of creation is in sync with divine law?

Humans all live according to their respective views, abilities, aspirations, limitations …
Some live relatively blameless lives, all the more remarkably since they were born with human limitations, not as gods. It is wrong to examine flaws and ignore goodness.

If we are good to our fellow creatures then that is the sum total of our requirements on Earth. God can take care of himself and needs no human crutch.

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ttruscott
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Re: Desire

Post #5

Post by ttruscott »

dio9 wrote:Christianity is vague about the cause of suffering.
Suffering is earned, not natural: Job 5:6-7 "For affliction does not come from the dust, Nor does trouble sprout from the ground, yet it is as natural to our state of being human as any part of nature: For man is born for trouble, As sparks fly upward. inferring that our sin and the afflictions that are a natural consequence for sin are within us, are a part of our human nature, ie, not learned, not a product of our lives.

The most dramatic of these afflictions are described in both Gen 6:5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.�
and in
Jonah 1:1 The word of the LORD came to Jonah the son of Amittai saying, 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and cry against it, for their wickedness has come up before Me.
giving us a look at affliction instituted and affliction passed by based upon the reaction of people to the call to repent.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Desire

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

dio9 wrote: [Replying to JehovahsWitness]

would you say humans are out of sync with God ?

Yes absolutely.... even more than just "out of sync", the bible speaks about us being "alienated", cut off from God by sin; Isaiah speaks of a thick cloud blocking us from Him.

And would you agree the rest of creation is in sync with divine law?
  • The rest of creation, refering to God's physical creation, respects the physical laws (laws of "science") within which they were created to operate. Animals follow their instincts as they are not moral beings... that said, the current situation puts me in mind of Romans 8:22 which speaks of all creation being in pain together. The repercussions of man's fall from grace means we have lost our harmony with God, with the animal kingdom (which we endlessly abuse instead of take care of) ... even the planet is "groaning" as Paul put it under the burden of our mismanagement.
Would it help if we knew the cause of our suffering?
  • Sin, and the resulting alienation from our creator is the cause of all human suffering. It's that simple. Does it "help" to know this... for some yes. For those of us that are not, and never will be satisfied to live like animals that are happy to eat, drink, have comfortable shelter, find a mate reproduce and die... some of us need to know why. Why we are here? What is the purpose in life and most of all why there is human suffering? In my experience such people (and I am one of them) never stop searching until they find logical and satisfying answers. We know, instinctively, in the pit of our stomachs, we know the answers out there.
Of course knowing why you've been kicked doesn't stop it from hurting but right next to "why" is the hope of a solution and that hope makes life worth living and any pain bearable . Faith, hope and love (love first of God and then of neighbour) gives such "searchers " The strength to endure until mankind is returned to the harmony we were created for.



JW



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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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marco
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Re: Desire

Post #7

Post by marco »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
would you say humans are out of sync with God ?



Yes absolutely.... even more than just "out of sync", the bible speaks about us being "alienated", cut off from God by sin; Isaiah speaks of a thick cloud blocking us from Him.

Dear me. That was 3 millennia ago and God hasn't managed to put his affairs in order. Poor old Yahweh!

Romans 8:22 which speaks of all creation being in pain together.

Hmmm. Some are quite happily in pain then. It is possible that these old scribblers made mistakes in their guesswork. This is the 21st century.


Faith, hope and love (love first of God and then of neighbour) gives such "searchers " The strength to endure until mankind is returned to the harmony we were created for.

Love of God leads to atrocities it seems. A poor British tourist, in today's press, was involved in an argument with a taxi driver and he confessed he didn't believe in God. The taxi driver beat him with an iron bar, leaving him for dead. The man survived - possibly through the good offices of one of those angels that keep nipping into our atmosphere. So perhaps we should love our neighbour and let God be.

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Re: Desire

Post #8

Post by 1213 »

dio9 wrote: ...What is the root of universal human suffering? Is it haven eaten An apple or a peach?
Bible doesn’t tell it was apple or a peach. But Bible tells Eve wanted to know like God and that is the reason why people were expelled from life to this death. And here we can experience what suffering means. In the life, there is no suffering, but here it is possible and I think the reason is that we could learn what it means so that we could choose what we want.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

And we should really not fear anything of this world, because God can raise people from death and soul can’t be destroyed by anything of this world.

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marco
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Re: Desire

Post #9

Post by marco »

1213 wrote:


Bible doesn’t tell it was apple or a peach.

It's an invented story,1213. Interestingly the word malum in Latin means both apple and evil.

1213 wrote:

But Bible tells Eve wanted to know like God and that is the reason why people were expelled from life to this death.

It was nothing to do with Eve writing a theological thesis. Death is what happens to us because we are made that way, not because Adam bit a banana.

1213 wrote:
And we should really not fear anything of this world, because God can raise people from death and soul can’t be destroyed by anything of this world.

Well so far all those who have entered death unafraid are still where they were placed. And those who went screaming, are still very much dead. We suffer because the constituent parts of our bodies are subject to decay. Now had we been made of stainless steel ….

dio9
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Re: Desire

Post #10

Post by dio9 »

[Replying to 1213]

Do you really think anything can destroy our soul? Catholicism teaches the soul is immortal . Likewise Hinduism teaches the soul is more than immortal but eternal , dwelling in us for a time. Does God suffer with us? Does God rejoice with us?

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