Why Did God Make Humans in the First Place?

[boatsnguitars]

The Theist's Nightmare:

P1. If an omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient god exists, then evil does not.
P2. There is evil in the world.
C1. Therefore, an omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient god does not exist.

This is the traditional Problem of Evil and it's given Theists nightsweats for centuries. It is one of the reason many people start their exit from religion.

Now, I will let the Theists try to explain it away, but there is one simple problem with all their answers (which usually end with "There may be logical reasons God allows evil for some greater purpose.")

Why did God create Human's at all? Human's, as we have seen, are - if not the source of Evil - are the sole recipient of all suffering. (I would add animals, but many Christians claim animals either don't suffer or they deserve the suffering we impose on them).

God, being Perfect, had no need to create a world in which there was suffering, and if he created Humans for the sole purpose of having things worship him, or entertain him, he chose a very sick way to do it.

After all, he could have made an infinite number of Gods.

Theists argue against this by claiming there can only be one God. By what rule? They claim that there would be a power struggle, but how so? If you have Perfect Beings that have no need to compete over resources, and are All Loving, how is there any struggle? After all, Christians are happy to claim Jesus was perfect and gets along with God, so why was God unable to make even greater beings than Jesus?

Angels, you say? Well, they don't exist, but the story of Satan only shows how a lesser being than a God would inevitably lead to evil and suffering - and he allows it.

So, Theists have to logically explain why an Omnipotent, All-Loving God allows evil and suffering, when he could have avoided all of it to begin with by either not creating beings, or making Gods equal to him.

Checkmate, Theists.

[boatsnguitars]

When is it going to happen ...?

Soon!


Jesus is recorded as saying that it would be impossible to pinpoint the actual date, but he was kind enough to indicate which "generation" would live to see the destruction of the wicked and the arrival of the new world system u der God rule.

Right. "Soon!" What a laugh! 2000 years is not "soon."

RELATED POSTS


Jesus said it would happen while some hearing these words would still be alive
"But truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."
— Luke 9:27, NRSV

To learn more please go to other verses:

When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
— Matthew 10:23, NRSV

Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
— Matthew 16:28, NRSV

Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.
— Matthew 24:34, NRSV[

Yep, it's bad enough that Christians have to apologize for that error, it's worse from JW's becauswe they started making specific predictions. Do I need to tell anyone that they were all wrong?

And, yet, people tell us we need Christianity taught more in the schools... Are they trying to turn us all into ignoramuses?

[JehovahsWitness]

So all this will be soon - but "soon" to God means trillions of years

True, which is why Jesus gave enough information to identify the generation that would witness events. (See --> post #43)



JW



RELATED POSTS

Did Jesus indicate that his first century disciples would see him returned in Kingdom power? (Mark 9:1; Matthew 16: 27, 28 ; Luke 9: 27)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 72#p752172

But did not Jesus say (in Matthew 16 verse 27) that he would "repay everyone" in the lifetime of any of his listeners?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 24#p836624

Which is the GENERATION Jesus claimed would not pass away before his return?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 19#p752219

For more on ghis topic please go to other posts related to...

MESSIANIC PROPHECY, LAST DAYS and ...THE SECOND COMING *

*The Return of Christ

[boatsnguitars]

True, which is why Jesus gave enough information to identify the generation that would witness events. (See --> post #43)

So, soon means millions of years, but also, soon means about 2000,... Got it...

Look, you do realize that no one believes JW or your book, right? Don't JW's get tired of repeating fairy tales as if they are true? It's like JW's is an Extreme Book Club, where they believe they are wizards and going to go to Hogwarts. And they keep telling people, "Oh, no! It's all real!"

And the rest of the world has to deal with reality.

BTW, a generation is 20-30 years by almost every measure. (Think about it, the next generation is born when a person is about 20-30. You wouldn't have children at 80). Your "80-90 years" is way off. You are literally tangentially wrong about everything. It's painful to watch... tower.

[JehovahsWitness]

Look, you do realize that no one believes JW or your book, right?

Jehovahs Witnesses are not asking people to believe in them - they are imperfect people that get things wrong sometimes like anyone else. Our ministry consists of helping people build faith in God and his word the bible. Plenty of people respond favorably to our message.


JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , CHRISTIANITY and ...RELIGIOUS TRUTH

[Purple Knight]

tired of repeating fairy tales as if they are true?

It doesn't matter if a story is true or not. Either it teaches a good lesson or it doesn't.

We have figures in history we learn are good people to imitate for one reason or another. For example, Abraham Lincoln ended slavery. But you never saw Abraham Lincoln. I never saw him. If it turned out he was a fabrication, would that make slavery okay? Very serious question.

Another very serious question: If there really were people who believed Harry Potter existed, in reality, would that suddenly make him a bad role model?

[JehovahsWitness]

tired of repeating fairy tales as if they are true?

It doesn't matter if a story is true or not.

Of course it matters, truth always matters.

That said, not everything can be proven to be true. One can choose to believe something or not but one stands on shakey ground taking the position that something which cannot be proven false (and thus falls into the realm of belief) must BE false. Silly postulating and colourful antibible rants may be entertaining (and for me ...useful as they give me the opportunity to post what I want on the subjects raised) ...but its still just voicing beliefs.

Better to say I dont believe in god or in the bible and leave with some dignity, since anything more would for all intents and purposes, making yourself the very thing atheist claim does not exist.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


Is Bill Murray God?
viewtopic.php?p=926633#p926633

[1213]

...By forbidding them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge?...

Forbidding the fruit is not the same as forbidding all knowledge.

Why didn't God make other God's equal to him?

I don't know did He do that, or if He didn't, I don't know the reason.

[boatsnguitars]

...By forbidding them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge?...

Forbidding the fruit is not the same as forbidding all knowledge.

Again, the Christian telling us Up is Down, Down is Up: Knowledge isn't Knowledge.

Why didn't God make other God's equal to him?

I don't know did He do that, or if He didn't, I don't know the reason.
[/quote]
Ok, but put your thinking cap on. Logically, why would God create a bunch of sub-God creatures?

It's so funny how Christians are ready to claim God can do this and that (all things are possible), but then when they get a tough question that isn't covered in their "Apologetics For Dummy's" book, they can't speak for God.

Watch: Ask "Why did God allow Evil" and they jump up and say, "Oh, I know this tune! I'll sing along! "Because Free Will is more important than not having dead babies and genocide"!"

Ask, "Why didn't God make Gods instead of humans?" Suddenly, they become meek, "Well, I can't speak for God. I can only say that's what he did because it's in the Bible, and the Bible is all true..."

Christianity is not an intellectual movement, is it?

[JehovahsWitness]

... explain why God couldn't have made us all God's, without the suffering?

He did.

Scripturally, humans were made "gods" over the animal kingdom and suffering was no part of Jehovah's creation.

Ask, "Why didn't God make Gods instead of humans?"

He did. We call them angels.

1. Are you saying God couldn't create another God?

No. According to the bible, God (Jehovah) did in fact create "another god". We call him Jesus.

[TRANSPONDER]

tired of repeating fairy tales as if they are true?

It doesn't matter if a story is true or not.

Of course it matters, truth always matters.

That said, not everything can be proven to be true. One can choose to believe something or not but one stands on shakey ground taking the position that something which cannot be proven false (and thus falls into the realm of belief) must BE false. Silly postulating and colourful antibible rants may be entertaining (and for me ...useful as they give me the opportunity to post what I want on the subjects raised) ...but its still just voicing beliefs.

Better to say I dont believe in god or in the bible and leave with some dignity, since anything more would for all intents and purposes, making yourself the very thing atheist claim does not exist.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


Is Bill Murray God?
viewtopic.php?p=926633#p926633

it saeems that you invert the actual arguments to suit yourself. The point about stories being true or not is the teaching the points - good or not, which is why I quote from LoR, Peanuts, Startrek and even Flashman rather than the Bible, because 'Good things'can come from any story, true or not and makes its'own case against uman morals and ethice - which applies to the Bible like any other book, Film or comic -strip.

On the other hand, writings being true or not is a question of facts. And that is assessing probability, like the Battle of Issus in the story of Alexanderis likely true, but the Gordian knot is probly not. The Battle of Waterloo is for sure real, Cambronne's 'The guard dies, it does not surrender' is verifiably false.

So on evidence, Genesis is not true. On historical probability, the Nativities are not true, and on internal consistencies, the resurrection stories are not true.

And those trying to fiddle epistemology and pretend that scientific evidence, historical credibility and critical thinking are just matters of Faith and Faith is just as good, not to say trying to pretend that evidence and logic is 'False' are entertaining and useful for putting out "Antibible" points, and we shall leave it to the browsers todecide who has the better case and argument .And you won't have done the atheist case any harm (nor your Dignity much good) by that wrongheaded and abusive outburst above. You must be feeling the heat.