How many REAL Christians?

[Zzyzx]

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Christians are said to represent 70% of the US population. However, many Christians who debate here (and speak elsewhere) declare that some fellow Christians are Not REAL Christians. Since there is no consensus in Christendom regarding requirements / criteria for real status, individuals and groups seem inclined to make up whatever suits their position " and apply their opinion in judging fellow Christians.

A self-declared REAL Christian Protestant may declare that Catholics are not real while RCC may say the Protestants are not " thus eliminating each other. Some posters deny real status to Eastern Orthodox, LDS, JW, 7th Day, Amish, Holy Rollers, Snake Handlers, Westboro Baptist, KKK, and/or other sects / denominations / groups " based on their personal opinion.

A cumulative total of sects denied real status seems to eliminate nearly every Christian (except the speaker's chosen sect, of course). How many are left? Would 5% or 10% be a good guess? If so, that would be LESS than the percentage of the US population who declare no religious affiliation (20%) including Atheists (2%) and Agnostics (3%). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligio ... ted_States

It should be kept in mind that Christians are not truthful in surveys about church attendance. Forty percent tell surveyors they attend regularly while church attendance statistics indicate that only 20% actually attend.

Can the 20% who actually attend church regularly be considered REAL Christians? If so their numbers about equal the no religious affiliation group. Are some regular attendees NOT Real Christians (but attend church for appearances, under duress, or whatever)? Are some who do not attend church actually Real Christians? How are such matters decided? What individual or group is authorized to judge?

Does the whole issue seem like a schoolyard inclusion / exclusion game?

[Elijah John]

Hi JW, the topic relates to who and who is not a "real" Christian.

Yes, and I think I was clear, my personal opinion is that real christians ar those that adhere to the teachings of Christ as presented in the bible. Why do I believe that? Because I believe the bible is the word of God* and only He is in a position to set the standard. And that is not a given on this forum? I know, that is a given about my beliefs, which I am stating. It is also a fact about the official beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. I am not saying anyone else has to believe it or accept that to be true.

Obviously I believe Jehovah's Witnesses meet that standards or I wouldn't be one, that much is self evident. If you want more information about the Jehovah's Witness interpretation of scripture and OP are happy for you to discuss that in this thread, fine, ask away. Like I said, I hope someone will want to respond to you.

JW

* Personally I never use the expression "infallible word of God" in relation to the bible because I'm never sure what people mean when they say that and want to avoid confusion

Fair enough, on your disclaimer regarding the infallibility of the Bible.

It is one thing to believe that one is a real Christian, and that one's Group represents real Christianity. Quite another to assert that others are not real Christians, and do not practice real Christianity.

The latter assertion implies that one is infallible in their interpretation, or that one's group is infallible, and that their own interpretation is the ONLY valid interpretation.

[JoeyKnothead]

. Some posters deny real status to Eastern Orthodox, LDS, JW, 7th Day, Amish, Holy Rollers, Snake Handlers, Westboro Baptist, KKK, and/or other sects /

Does the whole issue seem like a schoolyard inclusion / exclusion game?

I wish you hadn't lumped the Klan and the WBC in with the others. Eastern Orthodox, LDS, JWs etc..base their teachings on love, not hate.

All Christians reject the KKK and The WBC, except for the KKK and the WBC.

Our problem here is that the KKK and WBC spout their religious rhetoric.

Who's so proud to declare you ain't a proper Christian, but that I am? Given the many contradictions in the Bible, I think it fair to say we should only consider a Christian, those who claim to be.

And, having done that, we recognize that hate is a common enough attribute that some folks'll possess it, no matter their a/religion.

Thanks to the many right and good Christians on this site, I've learned that to be religious doesn't mean one's a hater, but that to be a hater, ya only gotta be one. I suffer my own accusation, but thanks to all y'all, I think I've come a long way towards learning to love and respect religious folks, and all their diversity. But I still swear it's a good thing to hate the haters.

[tam]

Can the 20% who actually attend church regularly be considered REAL Christians?

Only if that were the condition of what makes a REAL Christian.

But I cannot recall hearing or reading my Lord say:

"All men will know you are my brothers if you attend church regularly."

Are some regular attendees NOT Real Christians (but attend church for appearances, under duress, or whatever)?

I think this is a fact, yes.

Some regular attendees attend for appearance sake (or under duress, or whatever). Some testify that this is the reason that they continue(d) to attend - and some testify to this after they have come out. I only have personal experience with the jw religion and some of their attendees (current and former), but there are those among them who remain in the religion, pretending to believe, just to be able to maintain contact with family members they love (including spouses and children and aging parents they might be caring for), and so they attend under duress and for appearance sake, so as not to be shunned by their loved ones.

But there are those who attend for similar reasons in many other sects of Christendom, and we have testimony from members here on this forum to that effect.

Not that being a member of Christendom is what makes one a REAL Christian anyway, as even the above shows.

Are some who do not attend church actually Real Christians? How are such matters decided? What individual or group is authorized to judge?

A real Christian may know. Christ would know, and He is the One who chooses/decides. But this will not be known to all people until such a time as Christ returns and gathers up those who belong to Him. Then everyone would see and know, including some who may have thought they were Christian but of whom Christ says "Away from me, you evildoers, I never knew you."

He does say that the one who loves Him will obey Him. His Father will love that one, and they will come and make their home with him.


Until that time there will be squabbling over who is and who is not a true/real Christian. Unfortunately, in the past, it has been more than just squabbling.

Does the whole issue seem like a schoolyard inclusion / exclusion game?

Sometimes perhaps.

The thing is, Christ did warn that there would be false prophets and false Christs (or from other pov's, it is written in the book that most Christians hold to be holy, that Christ warned of this). So it is not just an inclusion/exclusion game. There are true Christians and false Christians, depending at least in part upon who one follows. If one follows a false christ (false anointed), then how can one not be a false Christian?



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 40 by Elijah John]


Yes, that's why I don't presume to be able to answer the questiion "How many "real Christians" are there.

While I believe there is only one religious organization that represents True Christianity on earth at that present time, that does not mean that everyone in that organisation is true to that christianity. That would involve reading people's hearts in my opinion and I believe that bible verses that indicate only God can read hearts.

I would say however, that many people believe they are doing what Christ (as depicted in the bible canon) requires but are not, because they have no idea what a Christian really is. I don't believe "real Christians" are scattered in various Christian demoninations all over the place, I believe honest hearted, God fearing well intentioned "sheeplike" people are in all religions, including the various Christian denominations.

So in short I believe only Jehovah's Witnesses represent true Christianity today as an organization. How many of that number are genuine in their beliefs? Only God knows, I choose to have confidence in my spiritual brothers and sisters but do not claim to know their hearts and motivation.

The latter assertion implies that one is infallible in their interpretation, or that one's group is infallible.

Well I can only state that I believe none of the above and Jehovah's Witnesses accept that they have made mistakes in biblical interpretation; nobody in our religion claims infallibility now and nobody ever has.


JW

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 40 by Elijah John]


Yes, that's why I don't presume to be able to answer the questiion "How many "real Christians" are there.

While I believe there is only one religious organization that represents True Christianity on earth at that present time, that does not mean that everyone in that organisation is true to that christianity.

That's not what I'm asking. I am NOT asking how many JW's are "sincere", or true believers.

That would involve reading people's hearts in my opinion and I believe that bible verses that indicate only God can read hearts.

On that we can agree. Then would you also agree that applies to those outside of your organization, that they too can be true Christians, if their hearts are right with God? And that no religious authority, and no theologian can determine a person's standing before God, inside or outside the JW organization, or any religious organization?

Well I can only state that I believe none of the above and Jehovah's Witnesses accept that they have made mistakes in biblical interpretation; nobody in our religion claims infallibility now and nobody ever has.

JW

That is a refreshing admission.

[PghPanther]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

and if there is a personal God that interacts in reality this God sure isn't making it easy for you believers to find out is he?

All the work and interpretation and debating amongst Christians over each other doctrines sure makes it look like its all man made rather than from some all power supernatural source.

Watch Dr. James White debate some JW's online sometime and you'll see what I mean.......

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 40 by Elijah John]

Yes, that's why I don't presume to be able to answer the questiion "How many "real Christians" are there.

That's not what I'm asking. I am NOT asking how many JW's are "sincere", or true believers.

I am aware of that EJ, but that is what imo is implied in the question in the title of the thread, I don't know if you notice but I tend to prefer to stick to the question for debate on threads and I was just referencing it.


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Would you also agree that ... those outside of your organization, that they too can be true Christians, if their hearts are right with God?

No I don't believe so. You're not a Christian because you believe or want to be one, any more than you are a doctor because you like medicine.

You are a Doctor if you have an accurate knowledge of health and medical practice and know how to (and do) apply it. Being a Christian is not just about "loving God or Jesus" neither is it imho, believing in them (or being sincere), its about having an accurate knowledge of what Christ expects of his followers (ie having the right information) and puting that information into practice. If those outside of the one true Christian organization had the correct informaiton as to present day Christianity and were putting that into practice, they would imo be Jehovah's Witnesses and working along with us in the designated work Jesus expects of his followers to do today.

It's not their fault, and we JWs are doing our very best to help as many of those that are sincere in their desire to become real Christians do so, but that doesn't mean they are real Christians or can be trusted to tell anyone what a real Christian is. Would you let someone operate on your child because they sincerely believe they are a doctor and regularly watch episodes of "General Hospital"?


JEHOVAHS WITNESS




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[JehovahsWitness]

and if there is a personal God that interacts in reality this God sure isn't making it easy for you believers to find out is he?

Things that are of value are in my opinion rarely easy to obtain. It's not easy but it is, I believe possible.

All the work and interpretation and debating amongst Christians over each other doctrines sure makes it look like its all man made rather than from some all power supernatural source.

To you perhaps, not to me. For me that is like saying if you have to work hard to obtain a degree, the degree is not authentic.

My opinion,


JW

[marco]

You are a Doctor if you have an accurate knowledge of health and medical practice and know how to (and do) apply it. Being a Christian is not just about "loving God or Jesus" neither is it imho, believing in them (or being sincere), its about having an accurate knowledge of what Christ expects of his followers

Having knowledge of medical procedures does not - I hope - make someone into a doctor. A degree is conferred after years of study and practice. Your parallel with a true Christian is a poor one since, in fact, you can be a true Christian without any objective confirmation. You need no degree, just an affirmation that you've understood the Bible correctly.

One can certainly say that Jesuits spend years in intensive study but presumably they don't reach the level of understanding that JWs achieve. God works in wondrous ways.