Earth and The Big Sky Battle

[William]

Biblical Jesus: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. [link]

Follower of Biblical Jesus: The phrase you use 'engaging in warfare' doesn't sit quite right to me. Something just seems off to me about that. Perhaps because it implies going out and looking for a fight, and not something that comes from love. Perhaps because you seem to have placed a negative connotation to it, as if a Christian is doing wrong (or going against Christ) by bearing witness to Him, and to His words, even knowing that may bring opposition? Or perhaps I simply misunderstand what you mean when you say 'engaging in warfare'. This is why I asked. [link]

QFD: What happened re the image of old testament god of the Jews that he changed so significantly from God of War into a God of Peace?

[myth-one.com]

Do you think love is NOT able to be an aspect of Warfare?

Love can be a reason for entering a war.

How does that make God a god of warfare?

God's followers enter wars as decided underdogs throughout the Bible.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #11]

How does that make God a god of warfare?

Anyone involved in acts of warfare are contributing to the act of warfare. You and I are currently doing so.

Being a god doesn't magically change that fact.

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #10]

CONCLUSION: While it would not be wrong to say God has and does engage in warfare, it would be inaccurate to describe YHWH as "a god of war" *if* this is used to imply war is his principle aim and purpose.

While it is not implied יהוה is exclusively involved in warfare, human beings presently are, so in relation to that if יהוה is involved with humans, then [in relation to humans] יהוה is exclusively involved in warfare and is therefore a god of war in that context.

Christians even believe that there is [or was] a war taking place in the immaterial [spirit/god] realm which has transferred itself into the physical [human] realm.

If יהוה has a principle aim and purpose re human beings and this planet, then it must be accepted that in relation to that, יהוה indeed, is a god of war.

QFD: What happened re the image of old testament god of the Jews that he changed so significantly from God of War into a God of Peace?

[myth-one.com]

How does that make God a god of warfare?

Anyone involved in acts of warfare are contributing to the act of warfare. You and I are currently doing so.

Wow, powerful argument. You got me there!

Likewise, anyone involved with eating ice cream is contributing to the act of eating ice cream!

I am presently eating ice cream. But I will not speak for you. Perhaps you are, and perhaps you are not.

You may currently be involved with acts of warfare, but don't speak for me.

I am not presently involved in acts of war.

Being a god doesn't magically change that fact.

There is no fact. You have yet to produce scriptures proving that God is a god of war! Your saying it does not make it true.

Follower of Biblical Jesus: The phrase you use 'engaging in warfare' doesn't sit quite right to me.

I never "used" the phrase 'engaging in warfare'!

Did anyone else debating this thread use it?

The phrase 'engaging in warfare' doesn't appear in the scriptures. That phrase "engaging in warfare" has been used three (3) times in this thread to date (not including this post).

All three of those times were from you. It originated with you apparently.

Good phrase!

Ooooh ahhhhh!

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #14]

I am not presently involved in acts of war.

Are you sure about that?

According to Christian theology, if one is a Christian one is involved in "spiritual warfare"?

You are a Christian, yes? You 'fight not against flesh and blood but against...?

Perhaps we arguing against one another's positions is not what you think of as an act of warfare - 'spiritual' or otherwise?

Perhaps then, you are not a 'Christian'? Or perhaps you still can call yourself a Christian, even if you are not engaged in spiritual warfare?

Strategically, the amount of variation of Christian positions can have the effect of causing the enemy to be confused as to where they are and what they are about...and so a Commander in Chief who opposes Christians would be clever to consider this and identify it as a strategy of spiritual warfare the opposing spirits of Christianity are engaging, and - in identifying it - can and will use counter measures/strategies related to that.

All is fair in love and war.

There is no fact. You have yet to produce scriptures proving that God is a god of war! Your saying it does not make it true.

No. I simply have to provide 1 scripture which shows that to be the case, and I have already done that.
You appear not to have noticed/ignored that.

Follower of Biblical Jesus: The phrase you use 'engaging in warfare' doesn't sit quite right to me.

I never "used" the phrase 'engaging in warfare'!

I did not specify that any 'Follower of Jesus" used the phrase. I quoted a follower of Jesus as saying that the phrase doesn't sit well with them.

A "follower of Jesus" is a loose description because - as we all know - followers of Jesus come in all shapes and sizes re their witness of such matters.
There are even 'followers of Jesus' which do not call Jesus "Jesus" but refer to biblical Jesus by other names.
That is why I often refer to "Jesus" as "Biblical Jesus" or "BJ" for short.

[JehovahsWitness]

.... if יהוה is involved with humans, then [in relation to humans] יהוה is exclusively involved in warfare ..

If by "involved with humans" you mean having direct involvement in human affairs, then the bible is clear:

"....the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" - 1 JOHN 5:19

In short, Jehovah (יהוה) has no part in the countless violent man made struggles that have plagued our planet for millenia. Satan the Devil is "the god of this world system" and yes, that one is "a god of war", disorder and conflict.

Why is Satan called "The God of this world"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 23#p901623

Has Satan been unable to mislead the nations since Jesus earthly ministre?
viewtopic.php?p=1024782#p1024782

Grand puppeteer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 93#p900093

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

FREE WILL, SATAN THE DEVIL and ...THE ORIGINAL SIN

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #16]

If by "involved with humans" you mean having direct involvement in human affairs, then the bible is clear: the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

If that were the case, then you and I as part of the world, are also in the power of the evil one.

Are you sure you want to argue that as truth?

In short, Jehovah (יהוה) has no part in the countless violent man made struggles that have plagued our planet for millenia. Satan the Devil is "the god of this world system" and yes, that one is "a god of war", disorder and conflict.

Are you denying that יהוה had nothing to do with the conflicts which are recorded in the Tanakh?
Are you saying that this was Satan the Devil?

[myth-one.com]

I am not presently involved in acts of war.

Are you sure about that?

Yes.

According to Christian theology, if one is a Christian one is involved in "spiritual warfare"?

What is their definition of "spiritual warfare"?

You are a Christian, yes?

Yes, I am a Christian.

You 'fight not against flesh and blood but against...?

Ignorance, I guess.

Perhaps we arguing against one another's positions is not what you think of as an act of warfare - 'spiritual' or otherwise?

I call it "debate"?

Perhaps then, you are not a 'Christian'? Or perhaps you still can call yourself a Christian, even if you are not engaged in spiritual warfare?

I am definitely a Christian, but I am not now, nor have I ever been a spirit. I am a human being, or Homo Sapien. Can I engage in "spiritual warfare" if I am not a spirit? How does that work?

Strategically, the amount of variation of Christian positions can have the effect of causing the enemy . . .

Who are you referring to as the "enemy"? Can I be in a "war" without knowing who the enemy is? Are you the "enemy"?

There is no fact. You have yet to produce scriptures proving that God is a god of war! Your saying it does not make it true.

No. I simply have to provide 1 scripture which shows that to be the case, and I have already done that.
You appear not to have noticed/ignored that.

Honestly, I do not remember you ever quoting any Bible verse to support any of your claims.

I never "used" the phrase 'engaging in warfare'!

I did not specify that any 'Follower of Jesus" used the phrase. I quoted a follower of Jesus as saying that the phrase doesn't sit well with them.

A "follower of Jesus" is a loose description because - as we all know - followers of Jesus come in all shapes and sizes re their witness of such matters.

There are even 'followers of Jesus' which do not call Jesus "Jesus" but refer to biblical Jesus by other names.
That is why I often refer to "Jesus" as "Biblical Jesus" or "BJ" for short.

Yes, sometimes it takes too much effort to understand your quotes.

When you "quote" someone without specifying any name as to who you are quoting, that isn't of much value.

Anyways, I do that with you to make you comfortable.

Oh, and here is the only acronym or initials I can remember:

LSMFT!

[1213]

Biblical Jesus: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. [link]
...

Perhaps it would be good to notice that the sword is the word of God.

For when by reason of the time you ought to be teachers, you again need to have someone teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the oracles of God. You have come to need milk, and not solid food. For everyone who lives on milk is not experienced in the word of righteousness, for he is a baby.
Heb. 5:12-13

….and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
Eph. 6:17

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #16]

If by "involved with humans" you mean having direct involvement in human affairs, then the bible is clear: the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

If that were the case, then you and I as part of the world, are also in the power of the evil one.

Scripturally being "no part of the world" does not mean not being on the planet but remaining seperate from the divisive elements and godless morals promoted by Satan's system.

JOHN 17

I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them,+ because they are no part of the world,+ just as I am no part of the world. 15 “I do not request that you take them out of the world, but that you watch over them because of the wicked one.+ 16 They are no part of the world,+ just as I am no part of the world.+ 17 Sanctify them by means of the truth;+ your word is truth