A Christian's Rationale For Owning Slaves...

[POI]

[JehovahsWitness]

Why didn't Jesus just abolish slavery practices, or never mention slavery at all? ....

Because it was not his place to; Jesus was not a secular ruler and Jesus did not preach revolution or social reform. Jesus rather taught his followers not to mistreat others and announced a heavenly kingdom where the faithful would be rewarded for their endurance of any hardship.


ABOLITION

Is all slavery not wrong because most people hold that it is?
viewtopic.php?p=1079923#p1079923

Did Jesus call for his disciples to sell themselves into slavery?
viewtopic.php?p=1081853#p1081853

Why didn't Jesus simply abolish slavery practices?
viewtopic.php?p=1078415#p1078415

Why does Christian scripture not call for the abolition of Slavery?
viewtopic.php?p=1020929#p1020929

Why is there no blanket condemnation of ALL forms if slavery when there are absolute prohibitions for other things?
viewtopic.php?p=1079935#p1079935

What would Jesus attitude have been towards slavery?
viewtopic.php?p=1078494#p1078494

LAW OF LOVE

What is God's attitude to present human systems of slavery?
viewtopic.php?p=368781#p36878

Does the bible indicate how God would have felt about slaveowners beatings their slaves?
viewtopic.php?p=1078599#p1078599

Did the principle of loving one's neighbour EXCLUDE foreign slaves?
viewtopic.php?p=1079896#p1079896

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SLAVERY , SLAVE BEATING and ...ABOLITION

[TRANSPONDER]

Why didn't Jesus just abolish slavery practices, or never mention slavery at all? ....

Because it was not his place to; Jesus was not a secular ruler and Jesus did not preach revolution or social reform. Jesus rather taught his followers not to mistreat others and announced a heavenly kingdom where the faithful would be rewarded for their endurance of any hardship.



Why does Christian scripture not call for the abolition of Slavery?
viewtopic.php?p=1020929#p1020929

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SLAVERY, CHILD ABUSE and ...THE MOSAIC LAW

There you go. It is not about politics, but about how you treat your fellows. That is where the Bible fails. It does not see slavery as an issue that matters. Even the OT merely tried to lay down some rules on how to treat slaves. The Nt ignores it other than to regard it as the way things were. Which it was to the people who wrote it.

[JehovahsWitness]

... That is where the Bible fails. It does not see slavery as an issue that matters. Even the OT merely tried to lay down some rules on how to treat slaves.

I wouldnt say it doesn't matter, only that ultimately in the Christian narrative, its resolution lies not in political reform but in the kingdom of God. In the present system, Christianity should work from heart-to-heart ensuring that individuals learn to respect their fellowman.



JW

[TRANSPONDER]

As a non -believer, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any reforms through Christianity let alone a promised Kingdom of God, which should have come while some of the disciples were still alive. For my money, reforms have come through humanist processes, pushed through against the blocking attempts of religion and which we are seeing up to the present day.

[POI]

[1213]

...
Why didn't Jesus just abolish slavery practices, or never mention slavery at all? Seems rather confusing, to have left what He left in the NT Bible....?

But, were they not Christians who ended slavery? I think the end of slavery is the result of people living by what Jesus said, for example because:

For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments, and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called 'Rabbi, Rabbi' by men. But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat. 23:4-12

I don't think it is possible to keep someone as slave (servant against his will) and live by what Jesus said.

Also, I think it is good to notice also this:

The word that came to Jeremiah from Yahweh, after that the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people who were at Jerusalem, to proclaim liberty to them; that every man should let his man-servant, and every man his maid-servant, who is a Hebrew or a Hebrewess, go free; that none should make bondservants of them, to wit, of a Jew his brother. All the princes and all the people obeyed, who had entered into the covenant, that everyone should let his man-servant, and everyone his maid-servant, go free, that none should make bondservants of them any more; they obeyed, and let them go: but afterwards they turned, and caused the servants and the handmaids, whom they had let go free, to return, and brought them into subjection for servants and for handmaids. Therefore the word of Yahweh came to Jeremiah from Yahweh, saying, At the end of seven years you shall let go every man his brother who is a Hebrew, who has been sold to you, and has served you six years, you shall let him go free from you: but your fathers didn't listen to me, neither inclined their ear. You were now turned, and had done that which is right in my eyes, in proclaiming liberty every man to his neighbor; and you had made a covenant before me in the house which is called by my name: but you turned and profaned my name, and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom you had let go free at their pleasure, to return; and you brought them into subjection, to be to you for servants and for handmaids. Therefore thus says Yahweh: you have not listened to me, to proclaim liberty, every man to his brother, and every man to his neighbor: behold, I proclaim to you a liberty, says Yahweh, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you to be tossed back and forth among all the kingdoms of the earth.
Jeremiah 34:8-17

[TRANSPONDER]

To tell the truth I'm not sure. The Word is that slavery ended when Christianity became the Roman state religion, but I keep seeing hints that it carried on. However, If the policy of the Christian Roman state was No Slavery I suspect it might be because Christianity had recruited many members from the disenfranchised classes, like slaves. The fact is (however) that all nations freely engaged in slavery, including Christian nations until the abolitionist move started in the 18th c. And (as we know) some of the worst Bible -punchers in the world were the most in favour of slavery, and still are, it seems. Point being that they found nothing in the Bible to say bthat it was wrong and plenty to say that it was ok.

I know that Christians like to claim that abolitionists were Christians. So they were; everybody was. But their reasons were not based on the Bible, but on human empathy and reason. Humans were all equal and fellows was the rationale. It was the slavers who could use the Bible to support their position.

[POI]

...
Why didn't Jesus just abolish slavery practices, or never mention slavery at all? Seems rather confusing, to have left what He left in the NT Bible....?

But, were they not Christians who ended slavery? I think the end of slavery is the result of people living by what Jesus said, for example because:

For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments, and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called 'Rabbi, Rabbi' by men. But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat. 23:4-12

The Bible condones slavery practices. Not once, does Jesus mention his disagreement with the aforementioned "slavery" instruction given by the Bible. By "slavery", I mean (human master/human slave). The Verses you provided above speaks about Christ as "the master" - which is a different subject entirely. If you wish to reduce this argument to -- (paraphrased) "we are all slaves in one way or another", then you have lost. The Bible endorses 'slavery'. Jesus does not come and revoke such prior given instruction. Instead, He either remains silent on the topic, or/and allows NT Bible writers to further sanctify such practices.

I don't think it is possible to keep someone as slave (servant against his will) and live by what Jesus said.

Well, you and I agree. But Jesus disagrees with both of us. Ala Leviticus 25...

Also, I think it is good to notice also this:

The word that came to Jeremiah from Yahweh, after that the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people who were at Jerusalem, to proclaim liberty to them; that every man should let his man-servant, and every man his maid-servant, who is a Hebrew or a Hebrewess, go free; that none should make bondservants of them, to wit, of a Jew his brother. All the princes and all the people obeyed, who had entered into the covenant, that everyone should let his man-servant, and everyone his maid-servant, go free, that none should make bondservants of them any more; they obeyed, and let them go: but afterwards they turned, and caused the servants and the handmaids, whom they had let go free, to return, and brought them into subjection for servants and for handmaids. Therefore the word of Yahweh came to Jeremiah from Yahweh, saying, At the end of seven years you shall let go every man his brother who is a Hebrew, who has been sold to you, and has served you six years, you shall let him go free from you: but your fathers didn't listen to me, neither inclined their ear. You were now turned, and had done that which is right in my eyes, in proclaiming liberty every man to his neighbor; and you had made a covenant before me in the house which is called by my name: but you turned and profaned my name, and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom you had let go free at their pleasure, to return; and you brought them into subjection, to be to you for servants and for handmaids. Therefore thus says Yahweh: you have not listened to me, to proclaim liberty, every man to his brother, and every man to his neighbor: behold, I proclaim to you a liberty, says Yahweh, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you to be tossed back and forth among all the kingdoms of the earth.
Jeremiah 34:8-17

At best, this instruction pertains to Hebrews alone. What if you are not Hebrew? Then again brush up on Exodus 21 and Leviticus 25 for further instruction.

[JehovahsWitness]

[JehovahsWitness]

.

It's one thing for you to argue that Jesus was powerless to make any changes, but it seems ...as though, in regards to slavery instruction, Jesus was A-OKAY with how such instruction was laid out, via the OT.

Would you agree?

Yes I do agree that Jesus fully supported the instructions was laid out, via the OT.

As for Jesus being "powerless", I do not believe that to have been the case. Jesus simply chose imo to submit to God's will that slavery whatever the form, be permitted to continue. I don't believe Jesus was happy slavery existed because slavery, even under the Hebrew system, does not represent the ideal. But all faithful people are happy to wait on God for true freedom.



Jesus expressed his intention to return; he would destroy all wickedness, wipe out greed, war and poverty (which are key factors in the existence of slavery) and put an end to all human suffering, including that caused by slavery .