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Replying to otseng in post #4151]
This directly connects with our being able to interpret Biblical script differently otseng. We can take something from the Bible and - depending upon the "lens" we each are looking through,(our perspectives) we come up with a different interpretation.
Anyone can come up with their own interpretation for any passage.
True. I was simply explaining the process behind this truth.
But, what we are analyzing is the justification and support for that interpretation.
Well ... I would say we are on the doorstep of doing so - we have only really slightly opened that door and have yet to enter fully into the room re fully analyzing...
I regard such a question as being based in atheism, as I observe atheists argue the same line of thought when critiquing the obvious schisms observed in the many headed entity called "Christianity".
No idea what you're claiming. Christians can debate about interpretations of the Bible. One doesn't have to be an atheist (or even think like an atheist) to question another's interpretation.
My overall point is that there are certain atheistic-based questions which I see no justification for anyone who is a genuine abrahamic-theist, to be asking.
You argued along the lines that IF we exist in God's mind, THEN why didn't the God of the Bible make that crystal clear in the scripture, rather than leave such open to differing interpretations?
My short answer is "because the God of the Bible uses what is available and allows for each human personality (being grown by Him through the human experience mindfulness has) without undue "tweaking" - such as giving atheist personalities any more evidence than is already provided which theist personalities accept as evidence enough."
The fundamental reason I asked that was because I was never clear you believed the universe was physically real until recently. Since you have recently explicitly stated the universe is actually real, then there's no deception involved.
You are still in the fog re understanding what is being revealed here otseng. Until you are able to confess that The Mind of God is not only real but also contains only real things you are in the fog.
As long as you (or anyone) continues in the belief that - like it is believed about human minds (everything within a human mind is not real) - that "The Mind of God must work the same".
This belief is will (because it can) be critiqued.
I had believed you were proposing everything was in God's mind and the universe was not actually real.
And now what? You agree with me that the universe is within The Mind of God and can actually be real on account of that?
I don't think you yet agree with that.
Further discussion would have to apply here as to the overall Mansion/TCM/Fathers House in relation to the "rooms".
For example, can we consider the rooms to be "located" "outside" of each other in relation to each other and if so, can we agree that there are other "locations" outside of our universe? Or are you saying that only our universe exists? Or something else?
I claim God exists and one universe exists.
My general rule of thumb here is that if someone does not answer my observations, it is possibly because;
1. They have skipped over them (for reasons not made known).
2. They have read and understood my observations and having no critique/rebuttal to offer, they agree with my arguments (but have failed to acknowledge/express their agreement).
Given this, then the 3 theories goes back to 2:
1. Real universe theory - our universe is actually real
2. Simulation theory - our universe is running inside a (computer) simulation
Perhaps this is true,
Please quote me in context. I wrote;
William wrote:Perhaps this is true,
IF
"there is no time as we know it outside of our universe" is the true
THEN
The premise to hang all this upon is established.
That hasn't yet been established as far as I can tell and critique.
Then I'll be wrapping up the debate on philosophy soon and start debating if the universe is created or eternal.
Nice try otseng, but until it has been
established that (1) is NOT a simulation (3) is is not something to be dropped of the list.
The question "Is the universe is created or eternal?" is POI's distraction (4) , and has nothing of note in common with (3) but possibly (?) something in common with (1) so that subject is a different issue to the issue between (1) and (3).
As far as your and my positions go (in relation to each other) there is still much to discuss on that front. I have shown that (1) is similar to (2) in relation to both positions holding that thing created, was done so by and entity outside of the created thing.
You have expressed (on account of your current knowledge) that you are justified in trusting the Bible God that this universe is a real construction made/positioned/located "outside" of said God and this knowledge-based trust you have allows for you to somehow "explain" how the similarities between (1) and (2) are merely something cosmetic.
However, my critique remains valid, because I see no where in the Bible that fundamentally has the expectation that we are required to believe the universe was created outside of the God that created it.
I support (3) with the compliment acknowledging that anything created within The Mind of God (being The Real/the overall real)
must be regarded as real, thus removing any resemblance to (2) since I also made the observation (with accompanying critique) that your idea of their being a computer inside The Mind of God which was created to simulate this universe meant that (3) was also similar to (2) - was a questionable idea.
Consequently I made observations about your idea, critiqued your idea and questioned you about your idea, and since you failed to reply I treat such lack (of reply) with my general rule of thumb that if someone does not answer my observations, it is possibly because;
1. They have skipped over them (for reasons not made known).
2. They have read and understood my observations and having no critique/rebuttal to offer, they agree with my arguments (but have failed to acknowledge/express their agreement).
Therefore if you prematurely "wrap up this debate", you do so under that suspicious cloud.
On the other hand,
IF
you are agreeing with me that we do indeed exist within The Creator Mind/The Mind of God
THEN
Let the reader know and then sure, we can move forward to some other related subject.
eta post joke;
