Jehovah’s Witnesses only ones that will be saved?????

[Donray]

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. God chooses these 144,000 individuals, the process began with the first century Christians and was completed in the year 1935. Of course from 1879 (the year the Watchtower started) till 1935 only faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses were chosen for this special role. All faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses not chosen to be among the 144,000 elite that go to heaven (those joining the Watchtower after 1935) will spend eternity on earth. All other people on the earth will be destroyed at war of Armageddon here on earth. This would also include any Jehovah's Witnesses who has been disfellowshipped or is otherwise unfaithful to the Watchtower and has not worked his or her way back into the good graces of the Watchtower by the time of Armageddon.

If one believes the JWs all other Christians and everyone that is not a JW will not go to heaven or live on the Earth after Armageddon.

Question for debate is JW the only true Christin religion or is it some type of cult that calls itself Christian?

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 140 by JehovahsWitness]

Do the JW believe the paradise to come will be on earth of the current heaven and earth or on the earth of the new heaven and earth?

[JehovahsWitness]

Do the JW believe the paradise to come will be on earth of the current heaven and earth or on the earth of the new heaven and earth?

Yes.

We believe that when the bible refers to a "new heaven and a new earth" it is not speaking of God literally destroying this planet and killing all the animals and burning up all the mountains only to create another planet.

We believe that the refered scriptures (2 Pet 3:13; Rev 21: 3, 4) refer to a new system of government [new heavens] and a new human/earthly society [new earth]. God will destroy all human governments and the wicked people. His own own heavenly government will rule over all the territories of this our planet earth and the "meek" that are left on the earth (after this final destruction of the wicked) will be allowed to transform this our planet into a global garden (paradise). This is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus meant when he said "The meek will inherit the earth".


A new "system" not a new planet







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EVERLASTING LIFE , IMMORTALITY and ... THE PLANET EARTH

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 142 by JehovahsWitness]

Then how do you reconcile 2 Peter 3:7, 10?. The heavens and earth are destroyed by fire and pass away . . .

Another issue is we cannot return to a paradise of this current heaven and earth because the knowledge of good and evil (sin) exists here. It (the knowledge of sin) existed in the current heaven at the time God placed man in the garden of Eden, right?

[JehovahsWitness]

Then how do you reconcile 2 Peter 3:7, 10?. The heavens and earth are destroyed by fire and pass away . . .

I'm pretty sure I explained that in the post above. We do not believe that by "heaven" and "earth" Peter was speaking of the literal heavens (stars and planets) much less the heavens where God lives. So no, we do not believe God will burn all the stars and planets and galexies (the literal heavens) nor do we believe he needs to burn the mountains, lakes, forests, trees, puppies and butterflies to "purify" the literal earth.

We do not believe when Peter spoke of "earth" he was speaking about the literal planet, but rather of the human society.


JW

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 144 by JehovahsWitness]

On what basis do you believe Peter would not speak about a new and different earth or planet?

Also, how can you return to Paradise (Garden of Eden) when the Garden of Eden which is a type and shadow of heaven, contained the lknowledge of sin (good and evil)

[JehovahsWitness]

Another issue is we cannot return to a paradise of this current heaven and earth because the knowledge of good and evil (sin) exists here. It (the knowledge of sin) existed in the current heaven at the time God placed man in the garden of Eden, right?

I don't know what you mean sorry, so I can't really address this.

What I can say is ...

ISAIAH 11:9
They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

God will destroy the wicked. Those that he leaves will love and respect each other and learn to live in peace. The benefits of Jesus ransom sacrifice will be extended fully and they will eventually be completely washed of adamic sin. The inhabitants living on this our planet earth will, thanks to Jesus' sacrifice, eventually attain a perfect sinless state, living in perfect harmony with God, the animals and with each other.

Just as God intended originally.

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 146 by JehovahsWitness]

What I mean is you speak of returning to paradise. To me, you mean that we will return to the Garden of Eden, but this time it will be the whole planet. Is that correct?

The issue is the current heavens and earth and the original Paradise of the garden of Eden had the knowledge of sin (good and eveil). To return there, or for the current heavens and esrth to continue in existence would seem to mean the knowledge of good and eveil (sin would still remain). This type of paradise can not be returned to. Do you understand?

[JehovahsWitness]

What I mean is you speak of returning to paradise. To me, you mean that we will return to the Garden of Eden, but this time it will be the whole planet. Is that correct?

Yes pretty much. Of course the garden of Eden was one small part of this our planet earth. When God rules the whole earth will be like the original garden of Eden, ie the whole planet will resemble a beautiful garden.

The issue is ... original Paradise of the garden of Eden had the knowledge of sin (good and evil). To return there, or for the current heavens and earth to continue in existence would seem to mean the knowledge of good and evil (sin would still remain). This type of paradise can not be returned to. Do you understand?

Nope, not really.

Maybe if you could make your point with scriptures.

JW

[B Bob]

[Replying to post 148 by JehovahsWitness]

Ok. The Garden of Eden is a type and shadow of heaven. By the time God placed Adam in the Garden, sin had already corrupted the creation of God. We know this because the tree of knowledge of good and evil was there. This means the knowledge of sin already existed in heaven before God placed Adam in the garden of Eden. I am not saying sin dwelled in heaven, but I am saying the tree represents the knowledge of the existence of sin. We cannot and will not return to a paradise that has the knowledge of sin. Therefore, when one says we will return to paradise, it simply cannot be a return to the original type of paradise that Adam and Eve lived - see (Isa 65:17).

Both the current heavens and earth must be destroyed, not cleansed with water, but destroyed by fire. Water brings cleansing, fire brings destruction.

The knowledge of sin will not only not exist in the new heaven and new earth, because it will never have entered them!

Do you understand now?

[JehovahsWitness]

Ok. The Garden of Eden is a type and shadow of heaven.

No, I don't agree. I believe it was a literal garden in a location on the earth. If you claim otherwise you will need to prove that with scripture

By the time God placed Adam in the Garden, sin had already corrupted the creation of God. We know this because the tree of knowledge of good and evil was there.

The existence of the tree in the garden doesn't prove sin had already been committed; it simply meant that sin was a possibility. God told them to obey him and explained if they did not and they sinned, they would die. If they had already sinned at that point, what was the point of telling them NOT to?

sin already existed in heaven before God placed Adam in the garden of Eden.

When God created Adam and Eve and placed them in the garden God pronounced the 6th creative "day" very good. Good by God's standards is perfection (see Deut 32:4). If God said, at the end of that 6th day every thing was good/perfect, there couldn't have been any sin there.

I am saying the tree represents the knowledge of the existence of sin.

Knowing something [can] exist isn't the same as it existing. I know that murder is the unlawful taking of a life. That doesn't mean I've killed someone. God knew that sin could exist, this is why he warned Adam and Eve not to commit one, that doesn't mean that they already had (see above)