Was Jesus a good son?

[marco]

We are told that Jesus loves us, and presumably loved his mum and dad. Yet any interaction is minimal; did he ever hug his mother or even talk to his father. We don't know. It would seem that Jesus was keen to play down his family. He wasn't the ideal son, but a man who rejected them. Only at the last minute did he leave his mother in the care of somebody else, having caused her endless pain.

We would have expected Jesus to demonstrate admirably the command: Honour thy parents, but there is precious little of honour in him for his mum and dad.

Was Jesus a good son?

Did he break the commandment?

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes I believe he was because he was obedient to his heavenly father, was obedient respectful of his earthly mother and adoptive father while under their charge and showed loving concern for his (presumably) widowed mother before he died.



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"BAD JESUS" , "FARICATED JESUS" and ... JESUS OF NAZARETH

[marco]

So if we believe that the Jesus character was actually sired by the mythological Jehovah deity who inspired God only knows who to concoct the 10 Commandments ...

Then Jesus was a BAD son for both his human parents AND his mythological parents.

I think if we make the enormous concession that Jesus was a divine incarnation nothing else really matters. This wins all arguments.

When he calls himself "son of man" he is displaying his knowledge of Scripture in which, presumably, he had immersed himself before emerging at the ripe old age of thirty to proclaim his messianic status. The term is pride dressed as humility: this divine being was brought into the world by a human. But the Daniel picture behind his favourite term ( “I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven,) is Christ the self-proclaimed colossus.

Was he a good son? I think he absolutely forgot his ordinary parents, whoever the poor souls were and his obsession with Scripture even made him hold them in some contempt.

[JehovahsWitness]

I think he absolutely forgot his ordinary parents ... [he even held] them in some contempt.

Is your support for this conclusion based on the occassion when he called Mary "woman" or is there anything else that you would refer to to suport the above ?

[marco]

Yes I believe he was because he was obedient to his heavenly father, was obedient respectful of his earthly mother and adoptive father while under their charge and showed loving concern for his (presumably) widowed mother before he died.

One can "believe" anything. The bible accounts do not permit us the liberty of seeing Jesus as a dutiful son, who loved his parents. IF we assume Jesus was perfect, all good follows. Discussion is pointless. But if we want to take our information from the bible, rather than our own suppositions then we should heed what the book actually says. On the few occasions his mother is allowed an appearance, Jesus is anything but warm and kind. Of course, the impertinent show-off we meet as a boy in the Temple was "on his Father's business" so had no time to be concerned about parental worries. Some son!

Your "related" posts are irrelevant and speculative.

[marco]

I think he absolutely forgot his ordinary parents ... [he even held] them in some contempt.

Is your support for this conclusion based on the occassion when he called Mary "woman" or is there anything else that you would refer to to suport the above ?

Just read any passage where his family are mentioned and it is impossible to extract concern, love, kindness or anything positive. He weeps for Lazarus but we don't get a mention of any attempt to resurrect Joseph. Joseph is kicked aside in the narrative. There's no nice word for Mary until she's weeping beneath his self-imposed cross and he tells her to look after the guy he likes.

I wonder what your support is for believing Jesus DID care other than "God tells us."
It is certainly not seen in the gospels, where it should be.

[marco]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]


In any case we should not need to search for LOVE of his mother; it should shine through the pages. What comes over is self-preoccupation. "Who am I?" and a callous disregard for his own family.

The incident where he's impertinent to his worried parents has him say that he was "on his Father's business." At that age his priority was his family, not his imagined role. If that role were so important, it should have continued from that point - but since there is silence till he's thirty, it means the incident was just a boyish ego trip.

[1213]

…1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
Jesus tried to claim he was God.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "

Jesus didn’t declare that he is God. Jesus said:

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

2. You shall not make idols.
Jesus made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.

I really don’t see how that would be idolatry. The cup is not worshiped and it is not a god.

3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Jesus said every word he spoke came from God. Unless God too was as incoherent as Jesus. God in the OT never spoke in parables. His orders were clear and direct.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.

If some people didn’t understand some things, it doesn’t mean it was in vain.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
Jesus broke the sabbath.
Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 9:14-16).

Jesus was accused, but he didn’t break it.

5. Honour your father and your mother.
Jesus tried to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

Jesus didn’t trie to destroy families. He told the good message and knew that it will cause problems. The message is till good and it was good that Jesus declared it, even though many hate it and people who believe it.

6. You shall not murder.
Jesus murdered the truth.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
Yet he spent his entire ministry condemning the very people he was sent to save.

Truth can’t be murdered. Jesus didn’t condemn those to whom he was sent.

7. You shall not commit adultery.
Jesus was unfaithful to God and his disciples. He left them to die even though he was given all authority over heaven and earth.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

Adultery usually means that one is unfaithful to his wife, I don’t think Jesus was unfaithful to his wife and not even to God or his disciples. I believe disciples of Jesus still live, even if their body has died. In Biblical point of view this "life" is not meant to last forever, this is only like short lesson and those who are righteous can have eternal life with God.

8. You shall not steal.
Jesus stole the words of the prophets before him and claimed they pointed to him.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, Explaining from all the Scriptures. . . And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, Beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets".

Jesus didn’t steal and he was correct about the prophets.

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Jesus accused God of betraying and forsaking him on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

Interesting thing is, is that correct translation, because according to the Bible, those who were near said:

Some of them who stood there, when they heard it, said, "This man is calling Elijah."
Matt. 27-47

But, if we think Jesus was asking why God has forsaken him, it is not false accusation. It is possible that Jesus felt he was forsaken. Jesus told that God dwells in him and maybe at the moment when he was dying God was not really in him.

10. You shall not covet.
Jesus suffered from a messiah complex and coveted the title messiah/Christ/Anointed one.
John 17:1 After Jesus said this, He looked toward heaven and prayed:
"Father, The hour has come. Glorify your Son, That your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, The only true God, And Jesus Christ, Whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began…

I don’t think Jesus coveted to be Messiah. He is Messiah and I think it comes clear from what the Bible tells.

It is interesting why do you need to make false accusations of Jesus, even though you clearly don’t know much.

[Menotu]

.

I wonder why people don't want to have all the available info to make an informed, honest, non-biased decision.

All available truthful and accurate information is essential to reasoned decision making. There is reasonable doubt concerning the authenticity of the 'Infancy Gospel' -- which is considered to have been written during sixth century or later.

It suffers from much the same defects as biblical stories in general -- lack of venerability.

I find it hard to reconcile that as being any more of a reasonable doubt vs. all the other 'things' that happen in the bible.
To me, it's a lot more reasonable that that book, pretty much no matter when written, is any less likely than the myriad of other stories documented (burning bush, sky chariot, throwing demons in to pigs, resurrection, world wide flood with animals in a boat, etc (though many of these people claim weren't literal, some still claim they are).
Probably has more to do with what one wants to believe than not.

[Elijah John]

I think he absolutely forgot his ordinary parents ... [he even held] them in some contempt.

Is your support for this conclusion based on the occassion when he called Mary "woman" or is there anything else that you would refer to to suport the above ?

Just read any passage where his family are mentioned and it is impossible to extract concern, love, kindness or anything positive. He weeps for Lazarus but we don't get a mention of any attempt to resurrect Joseph. Joseph is kicked aside in the narrative. There's no nice word for Mary until she's weeping beneath his self-imposed cross and he tells her to look after the guy he likes.

I wonder what your support is for believing Jesus DID care other than "God tells us."
It is certainly not seen in the gospels, where it should be.

The Gospels unwittingly record evidence of Jesus imperfection. This is only a problem if one needs him to be their God, or if one needs him to be their "unblemished sacrifice for sin". If one only looks to him as a righteous but imperfect prophet, rabbi or spiritual leader, this is not a problem.

[JehovahsWitness]

WAS JESUS EXPRESSING HIS CONTEMPT FOR HIS MOTHER BY ASKING HIS FRIEND TO LOOK AFTER HER AFTER HIS DEATH?

• ...he tells her to look after the guy he likes.

  Are you referring to Jesus dying words...
  

  JOHN 19: 26-27 (ESV)
  
  Woman, behold, your son!� Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!� And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home

  Since John was an adult male with his own family business and home and Mary was a woman without means visible means of support, could it be that Jesus was conferring is mother to the care and protection of his friend? (rather than telling his elderly mother to go find a job and get work to financially support in John)? Most normal people have a natural desire to care for their parents as they grow older and are unable to suport themselves. Although Mary would probably not have been extremely aged a the time of Jesus death, in a patriarchal society she would still have had need of a male protector and provider as she wojld have been too old to remarry. It seems particlarly perverse to interpret Jesus words as a placement of an additional burden on Mary rather than a provision for her protection and care.
  
  * The family home legally went from father to eldest son, Jesus death would have gone to the next son, who we can reasonably understand was not a beliver, not to his mother

Given the social and historical context, why do you conclude it was an order expressing contempt rather than a kind act reflecting love

JW



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