Is Evil Necessarily if God is Good?

[AquinasForGod]

So my question for debate is the title. Is evil necessary if God is good?

By necessary, I mean that the world could not be any other way.

My answer is yes, evil is necessary if God is good. God could not have made the world any other way other than evil exist.

Here is my reasoning. First, my definition of evil is the lack of the good, like darkness is the lack of light. Evil is not a thing in the world, but a lack of a thing, i.e. the good.

Perfect = having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.
Only that which is eternal and good can be perfectly good, thus anything else that comes to exist will lack the good.

Because God is good, God will do the good.
It is good to bring about the world.
It is good to bring about freewill beings.
Freewill beings will do less than the good. They will do evil. They will cause suffering.
thus evil is necessary.

For those interested, here is a more detailed defense - https://www.freelymeditate.com/single-p ... y-for-good

[TRANSPONDER]

So my question for debate is the title. Is evil necessary if God is good?

No. Evil, as in the total lack of goodness, is not necessary.



JW





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That's really the best case one can make - it's the one I'd make if I was theist; God factored all the decisions humans would make, given that God has to make them free agents or there would be no point, into His plan before he even began creating, or that has to be the theory or He's working blind. That validates prayer, free will and everything, but it doesn't remove the responsibility from God. It doesn't. I was His choice to do that for reasons that suited him. Any being with a morality that in any way matches the one he supposedly gave us would understand that the responsibility is His, even if there was a good reason for, and a good intention behind, every choice and decision he made as part of that plan. He must know that he is responsible for all the evils in the end, or he is not a moral being but an amoral dictator. And that is not infrequently the realisation that the theist apologists come to, and it was realised as early o a Job; "I made the earth, I'm stronger than you, I can do as I like and you just have to suck it up'. That's the message there.

It makes a sorta sense, but I don't like it; i really don't and I can only say that I much prefer the hypothesis that it isn't like that at all and it is all mythology and we are on our own; good or bad though it was and is, it's preferable to a dictator - god with no moral scruples.

[JehovahsWitness]

So my question for debate is the title. Is evil necessary if God is good?

No only is it "not necessary", it is not even possible. Since God is good and God has and will always exist, a complete lack of goodness (god) is impossible.


Logic



JW




RELATED POSTS

Did God create the devil?
viewtopic.php?p=359210#p359210

Does the bible not speak of God creating evil (Isaiah 45:7; Ex 32:14)?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 07#p906407

To learn more please go to other posts related to ....

EVIL , DEMONS and ... SATAN THE DEVIL

[sridatta]

So my question for debate is the title. Is evil necessary if God is good?

By necessary, I mean that the world could not be any other way.

My answer is yes, evil is necessary if God is good. God could not have made the world any other way other than evil exist.

Here is my reasoning. First, my definition of evil is the lack of the good, like darkness is the lack of light. Evil is not a thing in the world, but a lack of a thing, i.e. the good.

Perfect = having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.
Only that which is eternal and good can be perfectly good, thus anything else that comes to exist will lack the good.

Because God is good, God will do the good.
It is good to bring about the world.
It is good to bring about freewill beings.
Freewill beings will do less than the good. They will do evil. They will cause suffering.
thus evil is necessary.

For those interested, here is a more detailed defense - https://www.freelymeditate.com/single-p ... y-for-good

You acquired bad qualities by your own free will. Yet God has preached yoga to you. Yoga is the special talent of using your intelligence (buddhi) to analyze and find out the good sides of sins. This good side of the so-called bad deeds can be adopted. The analysis also helps you identify and avoid the bad sides of so-called meritorious actions. This special talent of analyzing and appropriately choosing deeds is the special talent or yoga preached by God in the Gita (Yoga karmasu kaualam). The person who attains this talent can use his intelligence to turn the sin into merit. He analyzes the good and bad sides of the so-called bad deed and adopts only its good side.

For instance, if you possess the quality of anger, which is generally considered to be bad, you can analyze where the use of anger is good and where it is bad. Anger can be used to condemn injustice and control your children and students from going on the wrong path. This is the good application of a bad quality, which makes it good. Similarly, even if you possess lust, it can be excercised in the case of your lawful spouse to generate issues. Even if you are greedy and selfish, you can use that quality to avoid donating your money to an undeserving receiver. Controlling anger, lust, and greed is mainly stressed in the Gita since these three are the main gates to hell.

You need not attempt to remove your bad qualities. They have been acquired over several births and have solidified inside you like a huge hill. It is impossible to eliminate them. All you can do is to divert the bad quality to its good side. It will reduce the pressure that the bad quality puts on your mind since any quality gets exhausted when the corresponding deed is done.

God also warns you to be careful of the attraction for merit. Merit also has a bad side. Donating to a deserving person is a good deed that brings merit. However, donating even to a deserving receiver, with the aspiration for some good fruit is bad. It is the bad side of the merit. If you donate to the good receiver without any aspiration for fruit in return, it will help you maintain the same attitude when you worship God. In the Kta Age (beginning stage of creation), lust towards ones lawful spouse to produce children was considered meritorious. But having lust even after producing children was considered sin. So, sages controlled their sexual life after producing children and such a stage in life was called as vnaprastha rama. In that stage, the husband and wife looked upon each other as brother and sister!

Of course, there are small changes in the definition of justice or merit in every age. This is done to accommodate the changes in the overall atmosphere of human society. But these changes are small and an outright sin remains a sin in all ages. In the context of lust, the maximum relaxation that can be given in the Kali Age is that avoiding sex with anyone other than ones lawful spouse itself is the highest merit! Intense lust for ones lawful spouse even up to ones dying day need not be considered as sin!

Being peaceful and silent is said to be a good quality. But keeping silent towards a horrible sin in spite of having the ability to control it is bad. Bhma and Droa committed a huge sin by keeping silent while the villainous Kauravas attempted to take off the clothes of Draupadi in the royal court.

So, we see that God has revealed this talented path of yoga even for the souls who are trapped under the influence of the bad sides of good qualities! Can any human being having even the slightest trace of humanity still blame God?

[1213]

...then evil is necessary, meaning that in every possible world there will be at least one human that rejects the good.

I understand necessary means "required to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential". That evil is possible is not in my opinion same as necessary.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

You failed to address my question.

Is there a possible world in which humans exist with freewill and every human chooses the good, i.e. no human ever does any evil? Is there such a possible world?

[AquinasForGod]

...then evil is necessary, meaning that in every possible world there will be at least one human that rejects the good.

I understand necessary means "required to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential". That evil is possible is not in my opinion same as necessary.

You also failed to answer my question.

Is there a possible world in which humans exist with freewill and every human chooses the good, i.e. no human ever does any evil? Is there such a possible world?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

You failed to address my question.

Is there a possible world in which humans exist with freewill and every human chooses the good, i.e. no human ever does any evil? Is there such a possible world?

Yes.

PSALMS 37:29

The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #12]

You failed to address my question.

Is there a possible world in which humans exist with freewill and every human chooses the good, i.e. no human ever does any evil? Is there such a possible world?

Yes.

PSALMS 37:29

The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

So to be clear, you believe there is a possible universe in which all humans have never sinned? Evil never existed in all the history of this possible universe? It sounds like you are only speaking of the future and ignoring the past of that possible world.

[RIP]

So my question for debate is the title. Is evil necessary if God is good?

By necessary, I mean that the world could not be any other way.

My answer is yes, evil is necessary if God is good. God could not have made the world any other way other than evil exist.

Here is my reasoning. First, my definition of evil is the lack of the good, like darkness is the lack of light. Evil is not a thing in the world, but a lack of a thing, i.e. the good.

Perfect = having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.
Only that which is eternal and good can be perfectly good, thus anything else that comes to exist will lack the good.

Because God is good, God will do the good.
It is good to bring about the world.
It is good to bring about freewill beings.
Freewill beings will do less than the good. They will do evil. They will cause suffering.
thus evil is necessary.

For those interested, here is a more detailed defense - https://www.freelymeditate.com/single-p ... y-for-good

I would say that evil is necessary because only God is good. Which I believe is what you're saying also.

Adam and Eve, beings with a will, were created perfect. But they were less than God. Only God is God. And any creature God creates with a will, because the creature is not God, will one day exercise that will in opposition to God. So it was with Satan and his angels. So it was with man.

Rip

[JehovahsWitness]

... any creature God creates with a will, [...], will one day exercise that will in opposition to God. So it was with Satan and his angels. So it was with man.

Rip

Satan contends the same as you do but you are both wrong.

JOB 2: 3-5

Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one on earth like him, a man who is blameless and upright, who fears God and shuns evil. He still retains his integrity, even though you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause." 4"Skin for skin!" Satan replied. "A man will give up all he owns in exchange for his life. But stretch out Your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse You to Your face"

Humans, even imperfect ones like Job, have proved that despite pressure, persecution, sickness even the threat of torure and death, they can remain completely loyal to God. The matter was indefnitely settled by Jesus; born a human he proved that perfect fidelity is indeed possible for God children.

Jesus as a spirit, and all the faithful angels in heaven, have proved there is no "sell by " date to loyalty, indeed for countless millenia they have remained perfectly loyal to the Father. No more proof is necessary, opposition to YHWH the Father is not an inevitability, that is a lie (a lie that slanders all the faithful from Abel throught to Abraham and on ... ) and we know where lies originate (John 8:44).





JEHOVAH'S WITNESS