Churches that accept everyone

[nobspeople]

Where I live, there are several churches (non-denominational) whose doors are open to everyone and preach love and acceptance. They don't teach (again, as far as I can tell based on what those who have attended tell me) sins like many other churches do. For example, they are open to people who have changed genders, gay couples and singles, unwed mothers, those with substance abuse issues and those whom have been in prison and are out, trying to make their lives in to something more than being a felon for example.
They do teach sins like stealing, hating, killing, etc are bad/sinful, however. The churches themselves are in large, old, architecturally significant buildings, but the congregations are small and they bring in little money (aka not a mega church). They seem to be very much like Jesus is said to have been in the current Christian bible.

What's you personal opinion of churches like this?
Are they biblically correct in their teachings?
Have you been to any and if so, did you like it?

[JehovahsWitness]

Where in the Torah does it enumerate observance of "613 laws and statutes" as terms of a covenant?

TO WHAT WERE THE ISRAELITES AGREEING AT EXODUS 24:3 ?

EXODUS 24:3 - NLT

Then Moses went down to the people and repeated all the instructions and regulations the LORD had given him. All the people answered with one voice, “We will do everything* the LORD has commanded.”

When Moses descended from point Horeb after his first ascent the Israelites agreed to observe God law and then officially bond themselves to their word via a sacrificial ceremony. While only about a hundred laws* and statutes are outlined in the presenting chapters (including the famous "Ten Commandements), notice what Moses himself would later note about their agreement.


* NOTE : Moses relayed additional laws not written in stone; the Israelites explicitly agreed all/everything God commandée not everything God had written

DEUTERONOMY 4

On the day that you stood before Jehovah your God in Horeb, Jehovah said to me, ‘Congregate the people together to me so that I may let them hear my words.... 12 And Jehovah began to speak to you out of the fire..... 14 At that time Jehovah commanded me to teach you regulations and judicial decisions, which you are to observe in the land you will enter to take possession of.

So one of the commandements God gave on that occasion was for Moses to act as the channel through which God would transmit divine "regulations and judicial decisions". There was no time limit to this commission; thus when during the course of their sejourn, new laws, statutes and amendements were added the Israelites prior agreement to obey all the commandements included the recognition of Moses ongoing role in legislation.




FURTHER READING
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/exodus/24-7.htm

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

BIBLICAL LAW, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ...THE ABRAHAMIC CONVENANT

[Mithrae]

Where in the Torah does it enumerate observance of "613 laws and statutes" as terms of a covenant?

TO WHAT WERE THE ISRAELITES AGREEING AT EXODUS 24:3 ?

When Moses descended from point Horeb after his first ascent the Israelites agreed to observe God law and then officially bond themselves to their word via a sacrificial ceremony. While only about a hundred laws and statutes are outlined in the presenting chapters (including the famous "Ten Commandements), notice what Moses himself would later note about their agreement.

DEUTERONOMY 4
On the day that you stood before Jehovah your God in Horeb, Jehovah said to me, ‘Congregate the people together to me so that I may let them hear my words.... 12 And Jehovah began to speak to you out of the fire..... 14 At that time Jehovah commanded me to teach you regulations and judicial decisions, which you are to observe in the land you will enter to take possession of.

So one of the commandements God gave on that occasion was for Moses to act as the channel through which God would transmit divine "regulations and judicial decisions". There was no time limit to this commission; thus when during the course of their sejourn, new laws, statutes and amendements were added the Israelites prior agreement to obey all the commandements included the recognition of Moses ongoing role in legislation.

You're trying to talk about the covenant, so why did you snip from this passage the very verse which describes that covenant? Let's see what you posted (in italics) and the part which you removed which might be considered relevant to this discussion:

• Deut. 4:12 Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, which he charged you to observe, that is, the ten commandments; and he wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the Lord charged me at that time to teach you statutes and ordinances for you to observe in the land that you are about to cross into and occupy.

According to Deuteronomy 4:13 the covenant of Horeb consists not of 613 commandments, and not even the 125 verses of Exodus 20-23 which the final edited form of the Jewish and Christian canons imply, but of ten commandments written on stone tablets (which Paul arguably implies also in 2 Cor. 3:3-6). But you - who assert that we are dealing with the very words of God here - decided that you would simply snip that verse out of your quote, and try to use the passage as a proof text for your claim of 613 commandments as the terms of the covenant?

[JehovahsWitness]

According to Deuteronomy 4:13 the covenant of Horeb consists not of 613 commandments,...

DOES DEUTERONOMY 4:13 RESTICT THE COVENENT LAW TO JUST THE TEN COMMANDEMENT?



Deuteronomy 4:13 is quite ambiguous and has been translated in various ways due to its lack of connectors. Literally the passage reads as follows



Various translations read as follows ...

Christian Standard Bible
He declared his covenant to you. He commanded you to follow the Ten Commandments, which he wrote on two stone tablets.

Good News Translation
He told you what you must do to keep the covenant he made with you--you must obey the Ten Commandments, which he wrote on two stone tablets.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He declared His covenant to you. He commanded you to follow the Ten Commandments, which He wrote on two stone tablets.

International Standard Version
He declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to observe—the Ten Commandments that he wrote on two stone tablets.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he shewed you his covenant, which he commanded you to do, and the ten words that he wrote in two tables of stone.

So the verse, rather than equating the "Ten Commandmends" with the covenant, can (depending on the punctuation chosen) be listing them as part of or a component of the proceedings.




JW

[Mithrae]

Various translations read as follows ...


So the verse, rather than equating the "Ten Commandmends" with the covenant, can (depending on the punctuation chosen) be listing them as part of or a component of the proceedings.

Strangely the JW organization's New World Translation, which you originally quoted and edited for your post, does not suggest such latitude of translation:
And he declared his covenant to you, which he commanded you to observe—the Ten Commandments. Afterward, he wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Nor does the NRSV which I normally use, nor any of the four modern Christian translations I consult as a secondary measure:

• NASB - So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
  NKJV - So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
  NIV - He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
  NET - And he revealed to you the covenant he has commanded you to keep, the Ten Commandments, writing them on two stone tablets.

Nor do either of the Jewish translations which I occasionally consult as a third option nor even (as a desperate fourth option) translations of the pre-Christian Septuagint:

• And He told you His covenant, which He commanded you to do, the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets. ~ Judaica Press
  And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the ten words; and He wrote them upon two tables of stone. ~ Jewish Publication Society
  
  And he announced to you his covenant, which he commanded you to keep, even the ten commandments; and he wrote them on two tables of stone. ~ Septuagint translation by L.C.L Brenton
  And he announced to you his covenant, which he commanded you to do, the ten words, and he wrote them on two stone tablets. ~ New English Translation of the Septuagint

Wow; rarely have I seen such unanimous and unambiguous translation of a verse! So instead, you have to try turning to a 17th century Catholic translation of a 4th century Latin version in a retrospective attempt to 'justify' your mangling of your supposed Word of God, itself a cover-up for incorrect claims about the 'law covenant' made at Horeb. A simple, straightforward mea culpa might have been more suitable.

[JehovahsWitness]

....rarely have I seen such unanimous and unambiguous translation of a verse!

Opinion duly noted. However the facts are that the Hebrew is from clear in this verse. Uniformity of translation is another indication a text is unambiguous and as pointed out, the existence of peer reviewed translations that present various alternative readings is an indication the serious student must look to context and supporting verses to come to an accurate conclusion as to meaning.

For more supporting arguments please see my previous series of posts on the new covenant.


THE MOSAIC LAW

What is the (Mosaic Law Covennant)?
viewtopic.php?p=1027280#p1027280

Was the Mosaic law given to all the nations?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 43#p964043

Did God give any laws prior to the Mosaic Law covenant?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 74#p843874

To what were the Israelites agreeing at Exodus 24:3?
viewtopic.php?p=1027422#p1027422

Is God guilty of FAVORITISM regarding the Israelites?
viewtopic.php?p=1027465#p1027465

Does Deuteronomy 4:13 restrict LAW Covenant law to "The Ten Commandements"?
viewtopic.php?p=1027427#p1027427

Is God guilty of FAVORITISM regarding the Israelites?
viewtopic.php?p=1027465#p1027465

CONTENT

Should Christians repudiate the biblical laws calling for
the execution of those guilty of performing homosexual acts?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 78#p994278

Do Jehovahs Witnesses support the death penalty for homosexuals?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 61#p993261

Was disbelief a capital offense?
viewtopic.php?p=1086176#p1086176

Why do Christians wear MIXED FABRICS and eat SEAFOOD yet prohibit homosexual acts ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 72#p996772

Did Jesus "cherry-pick" scripture ?
viewtopic.php?p=1020143#p1020143

ABOLISHMENT OF THE MOSAIC LAW

Does the bible say the Mosaic law has been "abolished"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p918176

Are Christians under the Mosaic law?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p950776

Mat 5:17 : Did Christ indicate that his death would signal the end of the Jewish obligation to obey the Mosaic law?
viewtopic.php?p=950778#p950778

Since many believe "Old Testament" law has been abolished, does this mean God now APPRROVES of homosexual acts?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 41#p993341

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

BIBLICAL LAW, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ...THE ABRAHAMIC CONVENANT

[Mithrae]

....rarely have I seen such unanimous and unambiguous translation of a verse!

Opinion duly noted. However the facts are that the Hebrew is from clear in this verse. Uniformity of translation is another indication a text is unambiguous and as pointed out, the existence of peer reviewed translations that present various alternative readings is an indication the serious student must look to context and supporting verses to come to an accurate conclusion as to meaning.

I'm sure we're all terribly impressed by your expertise as a "serious student" of biblical Hebrew Moving on however, the second reason I found this to be a curious choice of proof text - almost as striking as the first - is that the chapter so clearly contradicts another one of your earlier claims. You asserted that the 'law covenant' was "later to be replaced" and lasted only until 33 CE, but Deuteronomy 4 is one of many places in the Torah which teach exactly the opposite:

• 2 You must neither add anything to what I command you nor take away anything from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God with which I am charging you. . . .
  
  9 But take care and watch yourselves closely, so as neither to forget the things that your eyes have seen nor to let them slip from your mind all the days of your life; make them known to your children and your children’s children— 10 how you once stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when the Lord said to me, “Assemble the people for me, and I will let them hear my words, so that they may learn to fear me as long as they live on the earth, and may teach their children so” . . . .
  
  23 So be careful not to forget the covenant that the Lord your God made with you . . . .
  
  40 Keep his statutes and his commandments, which I am commanding you today for your own well-being and that of your descendants after you, so that you may long remain in the land that the Lord your God is giving you for all time.

The more inclusive/accepting churches described in the OP may or may not accept the claims of Jeremiah, Hebrews, Paul and John that under the 'new covenant' God's people should look primarily to their own hearts and minds for His guidance rather than the written or spoken teachings of mere men: Some of them may simply see no reason to take anything in the bible as inerrant or authoritative to begin with. But either way, for those who instead profess to venerate their written canon this glaring discrepancy in which the authors of the Torah claimed to be handing down eternal and unchanging commandments from God is obviously a big problem.

Claiming biblical authority for condemnation of supposed 'sins' like homosexual relations, women speaking in church or so on would be a rather unimpressive stance without proving the authority of the bible to begin with; and much weaker and more irrational in light of the bible's own teaching about the locus of divine guidance under the new covenant; but becomes totally inconsistent to the point of utter incoherency when we note how all these other permanent laws and statues regarding sacrifice and so on are simply brushed away and ignored at the professing biblicist's merest convenience!

[JehovahsWitness]

You asserted that the 'law covenant' was "later to be replaced" and lasted only until 33 CE, but Deuteronomy 4 is one of many places in the Torah which teach exactly the opposite:

I see nothing in the verses you quote that contradicts the above. From what I can see they are Moses instructions that future generations adhere to the law.




JW

[historia]

Nor does the NRSV which I normally use, nor any of the four modern Christian translations I consult as a secondary measure:

• NASB - So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
  NKJV - So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
  NIV - He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
  NET - And he revealed to you the covenant he has commanded you to keep, the Ten Commandments, writing them on two stone tablets.

Just out of curiosity, why did you choose the NKJV as part of your secondary list?

[Mithrae]

Just out of curiosity, why did you choose the NKJV as part of your secondary list?

It's just another recognizable and easy to access version to compare against. It uses 'virgin' in Isaiah 7 and capitalized 'Messiah' in Daniel 9, without footnotes in either case, so that's a bit of a black mark in my opinion, but there's not many translations which don't have one or two of 'em that I've found; the NIV (at least the newer edition on biblegateway.com) has "Jewish leaders" in John 19:7 etc.; the NET (which I briefly had high hopes of, and has excellent footnotes) has "fellow Christians" in 1 John 2:9 etc. Pretty sure I stumbled across a questionable translation by the NRSV too at one point, but I don't remember where. What version/s would you recommend?

[1213]

...They seem to be very much like Jesus is said to have been in the current Christian bible.

What's you personal opinion of churches like this?
Are they biblically correct in their teachings?
Have you been to any and if so, did you like it?

Jesus was forgiving, but he also said:

"Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more."
John 8:11

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:20

If those who accept everything do not keep these scriptures, I don’t think they are really following Bible Jesus.